monte11sec Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 This question is actually for member "502ci" (since his Monte has a very similar setup to mine) but all comments/suggestions are certainly welcome. I have a 72 Monte with a ZZ502 and I am currently upgrading the fuel system for nitrous. I have a new fuel tank that was recently sumped and I plan on using the Aeromotive 1000 fuel pump since it seems to be up to the task of feeding a 502 with nitrous. However, before I make a final decision, I need the following questions answered: * Does this pump have overheating issues when used during daily driving? * Is the Aeromotive Billet Fuel Pump Speed Controller (P/N 16302) really needed for a daily driver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex's72fgmc Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 the speed controler i would recomend along with a fuel pressure regulator. are you using a carb or a fuel injection setup? also are you using a timing retard controller? what size nitrous system are you going to use? these will play a big issue into what you may or may not need. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monte11sec Posted March 7, 2008 Author Share Posted March 7, 2008 I am running an 850 Quick Fuel Technology carb with vacuum secondary. The nitrous system is an NOS Cheater system and I will be using the smallest jets in the kit which should give the engine approximately 125-150 extra horsepower. I don't currently have a timing retard controller but I am thinking about buying one as well as a FPS (for nitrous shutdown during low fuel pressure) and a nitrous "window" controller to allow the nitrous solenoids to engage between 3000-6000 RPM. I am also monitoring A/F ratio with a Dynojet Wideband commander system, which comes with an analog A/F gauge, and I am monitoring fuel pressure with an electric fuel pressure gauge. Both gauges will be mounted on the A-pillar. I think that should be enough safe guards so that the 502 will still live a long life even if something unexpected happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
502ci Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 * Does this pump have overheating issues when used during daily driving? * Is the Aeromotive Billet Fuel Pump Speed Controller (P/N 16302) really needed for a daily driver? I have had no overheating issues at all, pump is actually cool to the touch unlike my Holley Blue that I was running, it is also pleasantly quiet. I assume you are running a return line. Is the speed contoller needed for daily driving ? No, and I do not use it...but from what you have planned for the car I would get it. I was just at Summit Racing this past weekend looking at NOS systems but was looking at the one rated at 100/ 125/ 150 hp, you got me thinking now that I might get the the one you are getting so I have room to expand when it is time. I personally have not been motivated to work on my car this Winter but I definately want nitrous on it by Spring. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
502ci Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Oh yeah...and welcome to the site... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
502ci Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 I also assume you are running fuel filters (two total), I'm running Aeromotive 100 micron one ahead of my pump (you can see it in my signature picture) and the 10 micron one inside the frame below the passengers door (there is a perfect opening to pull the filter out and replace it when needed). Then again I'm running braided lines, I'm not sure what you will be using. 100 micron part #12304 10 micron part #12301 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monte11sec Posted March 7, 2008 Author Share Posted March 7, 2008 First off, I want to thank everybody for welcoming me to this site. I have been visiting this site for years now but I finally decided to join. As far as my fuel system goes, I will be adding the following: * -10 braided line from the sump to an Aeromotive filter * Aeromotive filter attached to Aeromotive 1000 * -10 braided line from fuel pump to return style regulator * -8 braided return line * -6 braided line from regulator to carb * -6 braided line from regulator to N2O fuel solenoid Bill, how did you mount your fuel pump to your car? Is there a mounting plate that the pump is mounted to or is it just mounted to the trunk pan? Also, how does your pump perform when the fuel tank is below 1/2 full? I am asking this because the pump is mounted above the fuel tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
502ci Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 My fuel pump is mounted 5" above my pick-up point, idealy it would be below the pick-up point but I couldn't bring myself to hang it low, I know, I know, looks over performance is not the way to go. I have not had any problems with fuel being picked up even with the tank near empty...and believe me I have ran it low on the way back from the track trying to make it to the closet gas station... I have ran it out of fuel when I still had like an 1/8 tank of gas by facing slightly downhill in my driveway...any sunped tank will have that problem for obvious reasons...so I try to keep it at a 1/4 or more full. If the worse case scenario happens on the street going downhill you can always coast...but luckily it would never happen going up a hill. Here are some photos of the pump and how I got it mounted. Bill Close-up Bottom view showing how I mounted the relay and all the jumper wires to the pump, also showing fuel line entering frame. Bolts are not mounted to trunk as it appears in the photo. This photo shows the two bolts holding the two L brackets...L bracket is on the inside of the cross brace. This photo shows the L brackets, notice there is one of the two top bolts visible, also I added a rubber pad for sound/vibration control. The two bracket do not connect at any other point, I bent them down accordingly to make it level. This is a very rigid set-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 I would consider using a -8 line to the carb instead of the -6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
680HPStroker Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 First I'd like to say welcome to monte11sec. I agree about with Bill about the dual filters. As far as the pump goes I can't advise you as I'm still all mechanical and will be until my pump gets worn. I'm not trying to hyjack this post, but Bill, or anyone for that matter is there an electric pump out there that I can use as a booster pump for my mechanical pump? If so what one would work best? My mechanical pump is a monster size Holley 170gph unit. I'm using all 1/2" line including the pickup itself to the mechanical pump. My tank isn't sumped. I have a custom pickup tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Greg, If you are considering about going to a electric pump in the future, I personally would do it now. Because the "booster" pump will have to keep-up with the mech pump...see where I am going here??? in the long run, it will be more cost effective to do it now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monte11sec Posted March 7, 2008 Author Share Posted March 7, 2008 You're not kidding Allan, those are some great pictures. That is the kind of detail I was looking for. Thanks Bill!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo's70MCs Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Clean work Bill, nice pictures and lets not forget to complement the "Monte". Great looking out, "One Look is Worth A Thousand Words." Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex's72fgmc Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 ok you will most likely need a fuel pressure regulator to keep the fuel pressure at the carb around 6-7 psi so you dont bypass your needle and seat forcing the carb to take more fuel and overflow onto the intake/ start a fire. the guage just tells you pressure not regulating it to a specific pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
502ci Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 I found a few more pictures, some you may have seen if you were on my cardomain site. Here's the second filter I was talking about...in the picture you can see my old feed and return lines that are cut...talk about small compared to the garden hose sized new lines... Sam/Bones has a good dual hard line feed (the ideal set-up) to his carb, maybe he will post a picture of it... Mine is a little different coming from the side as this was the only way my fuel regulator would allow it seeing how the lines entered and exited in all directions. I have the Aeromotive A1000 bypass style regulator which I originally installed for a supercharger that is on the back burner for now, it would be more than adequate for nitrous though. Here's some more pictures. Bill Here's the lines coming up from out of the frame on the inner fender. You can tell by the fuel line size as to what each line is for, you can also see how I mounted the pressure gauge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 uh,uh Bill, no hard lines here, my return line comes right off my pump at the back of the car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
502ci Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Sam/Bones has a good dual hard line feed (the ideal set-up) to his carb, maybe he will post a picture of it... Oops, I was actually referring to your dual carb hard line that is fed up from the front of the motor from the braided line. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 here's an old picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heckeng Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 uh,uh Bill, no hard lines here, my return line comes right off my pump at the back of the car You lazy-butts with your flexible line! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
680HPStroker Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Sam, I hear ya, but I have alot of money invested already in my current setup. In order to make the change I have to invest in sumping my stock tank, plumb up flex line from the sump to the filter, flex line from there to the pump, flex line from the pump to the 1/2" hard line, disconnect/remove/blank off the mechanical pump, and plumb flex line from the end of the hard line to the regulator inlet. That is a big job and can get expensive. I may have do this anyway as I will have to cut out a section of the hard line to install an electric pump in my current setup. I'll probably just leave it alone for now and see how much starvation I get on top end. I'm not going to doing any bracket racing for a while anyway until I get my cage in. I'm just going to do test and tune on Friday nights to get my feet wet and one of the local tracks will let you slide on the cage in the 1/8 mile for a street car. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 let us know how it goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc8oye Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 honestly, I don't think the variable speed controller for the pump is necessary.. unless you are just trying to reduce noise / power consumption. as long as you are running a bypass style regulator with an adequte return line, the pump should not be getting that hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monte11sec Posted March 11, 2008 Author Share Posted March 11, 2008 What would be considered an adequate return line for the A1000? I assume that a -8 is adequate when using the Aeromotive 13204 regulator. Should the Aeromotive be capable of supplying enough fuel for a stock ZZ502 with a 150-250 shot of nitrous. My plans are to have one of the regulator output ports supply fuel to the carb and the other regulator output port supply fuel to the N2O fuel solenoid. I only plan on using the smallest jets in the NOS kit but I would like to know if the pump is up to the task if for some reason I decide to step up the jet sizes. I DO NOT want to have a fuel system dedicated to the nitrous if I can avoid it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
502ci Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 The pump is good for something like 1200 hp or more, I can't quite remember, the regulator is also. I'm not sure what size line is needed for the nitrous plate (the fuel side) but there is the only one port left on the regulator (it's the one where I put my gauge at but I would have to think it would be more than big enough for the nitrous fuel line. You might want to call an Aeromotive tech and get their opinion. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanMonte Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 A lot of people use the test port on a fuel injected fuel rail for the n2o and its valve core sized. You should run the same sized return as your feed line with a carb. The a1000 will suport a lot more than a stock 502/502 with a couple hundred shot. I am running a dual walbro inline pump setup on my car with the 13202 regulator -10 and -10 lines. I love the pumps, they were around the same price as the a1000 after i bought the Y fitting and other fittings. They were designed to be run just like any average car to 100k plus miles. They are very very quiet. and best part is they flow more than an a1000. If you intrested search for gls392 i belive is the model number. They are inline fuel injection pumps and flow around 60gph @ 50psi up to like 70-80psi. YOu have to run a bypass regulator obviously just like the a1000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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