CrazyDavey Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 My best friend Dal came up here this weekend so we could get some racing in together and also so he could get his racing license to run faster than 9.99. We had a blast and the cars worked flawlessly all weekend. Thought some of you might enjoy us running together for a pass at Woodburn...This is the picture of the launch and also the vid Red shot that goes with it..hope you enjoy.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montemedic Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Now that's flying high, times 2 !!! Looks like you boys are in need of some wheelie bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monte70car Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I see a jack stand under those cars Dave you and Dal got those things dial in. I guess the question is did Dal get his license for the faster class so he can race against you? It looks like you won the race or did you run faster then your dial in time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCfan Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Awesome!! What fun!! Your new motor left Dal checkin' tail lights! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL M Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Thats just awesome Davey!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo's70MCs Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Nice! Couple of observations..nice pass, you smoked him.. nice white Chevelles..both of you sporting the "Woodpecker" and Red has gotten better at holding the Camcorder or you finally invested in a tripod. Nevertheless a great pass, I kept trying to determine who's reaction time was faster. It looks like you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
502ci Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Don't get any better than that, two perfect wheelies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7tonemonte Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Man thats awesome, dont you mess up that back bumper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 57 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 That is a picture and video to be proud of! The cars are running great, and Red did an outstanding job with the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72MC Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 "Synchronized Launches",... and the judges score it a "10" except for the Russian judge who gives it an 8. Great pic and video. Enjoyed it. Thanks for sharing Davey. - Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Wow Davey, GREAT picture! You guys got them cars hookin' and bookin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 That is too cool!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Z28 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Oh man that was cool....to quote Spicoli.....awesome! totally awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 LS5 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Wheelies in tandem - super cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 thanks everyone...we had a blast all weekend...the car was dead consistent...made 7 passes over two days all within 3 hun.... Rob it was a TNT so there was no race really..just having some fun and making passes for Dal's license. Rod Red doesn't use a tripod...Dal had a slightly better reaction time on that pass.....058 to .067 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCfan Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Dave, it seems that Dal's car has a more violent "bounce" coming off the wheelie than yours. Is that due to different front springs, shocks, driving technique or some combination? Is that much "bounce" actually desireable for best performance or was it just part of the "fun" factor in this case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted March 27, 2013 Author Share Posted March 27, 2013 yes his car tends to come down harder than mine, mine actually came down harder than it usually does on that pass...I was caught up in the moment and shifted into second later than I normally would. No it's not really desirable but a certain amount of bounce is unavoidable, just needs to be somewhat controlled. That's usually done with shocks, travel limiters and shift points. For my car which is considered a long wheelbase car (115") it needs every bit of weight transfer it can get to make a small tire hook (10.5") and it needs to keep it back there as long as possible. All my suspension parts and adjustments are designed to help do that. Dal's car is considered a short wheelbase car (112") so it can over rotate if it gets up too high and unload the back tires. That's about as high as my car will go, his will (and several times did) go higher so he needs to control it more than I do. He's on the same tire but there is a point of diminishing returns in his case. There are many fine lines that can be crossed when setting up these cars, knowing when you're at one is the challenge.... here's one that got away from Dal a little.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCfan Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Thanks for that explanation, Davey. Seems like it must be a very tricky task to set up a car for optimum weight transfer with all of the variables involved. I wonder if anyone has ever done a quantative sutdy of the physics involved in a wheelie by measuring, recording, plotting and correlating possible factors like acceleration, engine torque and lift height over the duration/length of the wheelie? It seems like acceleration would peak rather quickly and then drop off while torque would also peak quickly but remain high, extending the duration of the wheelie. Car weight and gravity are fixed constants so inertia and momentum should correlate to acceleration and speed. Traction/hooking is probably the biggest unknown/uncontrollable factor of all. Seems like a correlation model could be built that would help a racer manage the tradeoffs between acceleration, front end lift height and duration. Not sure how much adjustability you might have between runs even if a model could suggest a better tradeoff for given track conditions. Maybe this is where the racer's skill and intuition come in and why some seem to do consistently better than others with similar equipment. In any case, it must be rather exciting to be accelerating that quickly for that long with limited visibility of the track and no ability to steer the vehicle! Seems like a considerable risk to take for the benefits of weight transfer and optimum performance. But, maybe it's not as scary as it looks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted March 28, 2013 Author Share Posted March 28, 2013 well there's a ton of info like that Dennis if you Google "Instant Center". There is a lot of theory and of course practical application to the whole thing but you're right...sometimes it just comes down to having a "feel" for it and just common sense. The instant center (IC) is a bit on the short side with my car so it hits the tire a little harder than most but my car seems to like it. It also is a matter of what the track can produce so I can get away with it at my track because it's well prepped. There is adjustability in the attach points of the control arms and the ride height. After that then you are into springs and shocks to make it all come together. It can be a science project but I try to not let it get too far and kill my fun with too much analysis. Actually it's not scary at all, at least so far...the car has been very predictable and had always gone straight so I trust it. The actual feeling when it does its thing is sort of slow motion, reminds me of when I was still flying....low G turns and pull outs... exhilarating... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCfan Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Hey, Davey, I have really enjoyed researching the topic of "instant center" this morning so thanks for that lead. Although somewhat rusty, I found enough memory of geometry, physics and dymanics for the definitions, examples and illustrations to make sense. However, what I have found most interesting of all is the direct and practical application of the IC principles to drag racing suspensions and their implications for the initial launch. Here is one web site that I found extremely interesting and helpful: Baseline Suspensions While I readily admit that I have NO practical experience in launching a drag car (and probably never will), the author of this site seems to have lots of practical exposure/experience and confirms a fundamental premise that energy (from the engine through the drive train to the tires) is best used to move the car forward rather than to raise the front end (excessively). Of course, raising the front end to some degree is often necessary for proper weight transfer and traction, but can be over done. While the author does admit that he is trying to explain a complex subject in simple terms, he still makes some pretty direct assertions about the probable effects of making suspension changes that affect the Instant Center, the Percentage of Rise, Neutral Line/Anti Squat, front shock stiffness/travel, rear spring stiffness/height, wheelie bars and the like. I just wondered how you, as an experienced and successful racer, view his assertions and explanations? Is he too theoretical or are his assertions valid but difficult to achieve in practical application because of other limitations? Previously, you mentioned some fine lines in making trade-offs and adjustments and the difficulty in knowing when you reach them so I am sure this is not anywhere near an exact science. I also know it would be somewhat naive to think a car could be set up to launch predictably and consistently on every run with other variables like track conditions, engine health and driver technique. Huge wheelies are very exciting to watch, of course, but there are also many very quick (and consistent) cars that don't seem to need them. I suppose the primary consideration is achieving solid traction, without which there can't be efficient forward motion, but once the front shocks are fully extended, is energy actually being diverted or wasted on further front end lifting? Again, I am NOT suggesting that I know the answer here. I am just curious about the practical validity of this author's assertions and have no experience of my own to base a judgment on. What is your opinion of this author's work, if I may ask, and do you know of any other more accurate or insightful sources? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevyss Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Love the pictures Davey; The Velle is doing great. Someday I'll make it down to Woodburn. Did you ever sell Red's car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share Posted March 29, 2013 it is very complex and theoretical Dennis. My feeling is that the science of IC in it's pure form is probably pretty cut and dry, math is math. It's the massive variables some of which you mention that muddy the waters to some extent. Most will not argue that ideal is using all energy to move forward, makes perfect sense, the issue is how to do that with the various combo's, suspension types, power levels, rules packages, tire sizes, etc.... Whenever this topic comes up on forums the discussion gets hot and heavy and for the most part I usually stay out of it. My car for example is a very small window of a certain combo that needs some specific things to work well. The guy in the lane next to me has a totally different set of needs/requirements so like fingerprints I don't think two cars are ever exactly the same. I do think though that the general consensus is that an A body car with stock suspension at my power/weight/tire level needs a fair amount of wheels up to move the car forward at it's optimum. This is where the fine lines and trade off's come into play. I have back time slips that say if the front is kept down more (trips the 60' light with the front tires) it will be just a bit slower than the higher launch tripping the light with the rear tires. So long story short you have to use the different principles and apply them as needed for your car. Through 100's of passes this is where I am with mine and I'm sure it will not end here but continue to change as the car does. Here is a still from the video...that cone on the ground out past the tree is the 60's cone...you can see how far out we are.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share Posted March 29, 2013 Love the pictures Davey; The Velle is doing great. Someday I'll make it down to Woodburn. Did you ever sell Red's car? you should come down for one of the Nostalgia races Royce..lot of cars there you would probably like....the schedule is on the Woodburn site... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCfan Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Thanks, Davey, I appreciate your indulgence and insights, as usual! I understand that it all comes down to the Time Slips and they generally don't lie! Wishing you continued success and enjoyment with the 'Velle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share Posted March 29, 2013 thanks Dennis...good discussion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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