1970 Monte Carlo question

[Jane Dempsey]

Specific Question for 1970 Monte Carlo:

I am the original owner of a 1970 Monte Carlo which I ordered in 1970.  I ordered and still have all the paperwork etc.  It is a 402 V8( Big Block with an automatic (on the column).

I want to find out the specific number of vehicles made with this size engine and configuration manufactured.  I have been unable to find out that information from GM or anyone else.  A recent article in the Hemmings July 2021 issue indicates it is pretty rare and I would like to know just how rare.  Can anyone help or provide information?  I have the window sticker, build sheet that was on top of the gas tank, etc. and of course the VIN number. What do you need from me in order to validate the information, etc.

Please advise if there is anyone out there that knows.  I live in Denver, CO, but purchased the car in 1970 from Williams Chevrolet in Colorado Springs, CO.

Thank you!

Jane Dempsey - JHDemp@aol.com

303-990-1428 (text and phone)

[MCfan]

Hi, Jane,

Welcome to the club and forums!  It's great to have another original owner, especially of a '70.  I wish I had kept the new '70 Monte that was my first new car out of college.  It had the same drivetrain as yours (402 with auto and column shifter). 

Although it is not so easy to find, our site has some interesting production numbers that should come very close to answering your question, at least the engine/transmission combo number. 

On the top red banner of the main page of any section, put your cursor on the far right-hand menu option "More".  The dropdown box has only one option "resources" so click on that down arrow. Now move your cursor down to the "Tech Info" option and then to the right on that dropdown menu and click on the "Production Numbers" line item.  The production numbers for the '70 MC are in the left-hand column.

Note that the number of '70s built with the "330 hp Turbo-Jet 400 V8" (402 big block) was 7,456.  Of those 589 were built with the 4-speed manual transmission.  I have never heard of any big block being coupled with the manual 3-speed transmission (column shifter only) so the remaining 6,867 402's must have had automatic transmissions.  Although there may be rare exceptions, all big block engines (402 and 454) that were coupled with an automatic transmission got the TH400 rather than the TH350 or Powerglide transmissions. So, also note that a total of 10,786 '70s were built with the TH 400 transmission.  Since the 454 big block was only available in the Super Sport and they were only built with TH400 transmissions, you can subtract 3823 from the 10,786 TH40s to get 6.963 TH400 automatics available for all other engines.  If you now subtract the 6,867 TH400s that were supposed to be coupled with the 402 big blocks, you actually have 96 TH400s left over that were apparently coupled with other engines (the 350 and 400 small blocks).

Look at your build sheet to see if RPO "M40 3 speed automatic" is listed below RPO "LS3 V8 400 cu in".  If so, you have a TH400 automatic transmission coupled to your 402 engine.  Since there were more than enough TH400s produced to go into every 402 non-4 speed car, I would say your car is one of 6,867 1970 Montes built with your drivetrain combination.

Personally, I think that is a very desirable combo (I loved mine) but I wouldn't call it "rare" as it is nearly twice the number of SS454s built with the TH400 automatic in 1970 and over ten times the number of 402s built with manual 4-speeds (589) in 1970 (I own one of those now). The most "rare" 1970 models were those built with the 3-speed manual transmission (545) but those were only coupled with the small block 350/400 engines to my knowledge.

Various members of this club have searched high and low for more specific and detailed breakdowns of the '70-'72 production numbers over the years but to no avail.  If someone here has found some recently, I'm sure they will chime in.  Hope this helps some.

[willie]

Hi Jane and Welcome to the club!!!!    I am not a numbers guy but i would agree with Dennis. I just wanted to say hi, and to tell you you have a great car and would love to see some pics when you can. Again Welcome!!!

[Canuck]

Welcome!

That is a great car you have and it is nice you still have it all these years later. As Dennis mentioned a 402 with TH400 transmission is not that rare. If it was a 4-speed manual it would be rare. Do you have any photos you could post here?

[MC1of80]

Depends on how you see rare. A 402 car is not rare compared to a 454 car but is rare compared to the number of small block cars. 

My "barn find" even though a 71 is 1 of only 8633ish 402 cars made in 71. Not as rare as a 1 of 1919 SS 454. But neither are as rare as my 1 of 80 71 402 4speed car. But all are rare compared to a small block car. And by no means am I putting down a small block car. Just that they are more common due to the fact more small block Monte Carlo's were made for all 3 years.  

[bigiron]

I had a 70 with a 350 and a 4 speed tyranny.  The dashboard was an ss. Any one know how rare this car was?

[Canuck]

1 hour ago, bigiron said:

I had a 70 with a 350 and a 4 speed tyranny.  The dashboard was an ss. Any one know how rare this car was?

The production numbers page in the resources section of our site will answer that question. You can find the 350 4-speed production there. 4-speeds are fairly rare. There is no such thing as an SS dash. If you are talking about the gauge package it was an option on SS and non-SS cars.

[jft69z]

45 minutes ago, Canuck said:

 There is no such thing as an SS dash. If you are talking about the gauge package it was an option on SS and non-SS cars.

Not so sure about that. Here's my rationale. If you look in the Service manuals, they differentiate the wiring diagrams for the interior as 'Chevelle' and then 'SS Chevelle & Monte Carlo'.

The difference being the basic horizontal sweep type speedometer, and then the dash we're used to that is standard in the Monte, but considered optional SS in the Chevelle world (though the Monte is the only one with the simulated wood). The gauge package was optional, as we already know.

Once I get out of this lazy-boy chair, I'll dig up a page from the manual. (had a 5-guys double cheeseburger & fries for dinner, it was a giant sleeping pill).

[Dtret]

3 minutes ago, jft69z said:

Not so sure about that. Here's my rationale. If you look in the Service manuals, they differentiate the wiring diagrams for the interior as 'Chevelle' and then 'SS Chevelle & Monte Carlo'.

The difference being the basic horizontal sweep type speedometer, and then the dash we're used to that is standard in the Monte, but considered optional SS in the Chevelle world (though the Monte is the only one with the simulated wood). The gauge package was optional, as we already know.

Once I get out of this lazy-boy chair, I'll dig up a page from the manual. (had a 5-guys double cheeseburger & fries for dinner, it was a giant sleeping pill).

Hurry I’m waiting. 

[jft69z]

1 minute ago, Dtret said:

Hurry I’m waiting. 

Hold your breath....

[Dtret]

6 minutes ago, jft69z said:

Hold your breath....

My face is going to look like that “ confused “ emoji. Lol. 

[jft69z]

23 minutes ago, Dtret said:

My face is going to look like that “ confused “ emoji. Lol. 

 

Here...I just added a blue in the face emoji for you.

[Dtret]

3 minutes ago, jft69z said:

 

Here...I just added a blue in the face emoji for you.

You should be lookin for material not looking for emojis. Dang lazy-boy. 

[jft69z]

7 minutes ago, Dtret said:

You should be lookin for material not looking for emojis. Dang lazy-boy. 

I knew you'd go there. I found info on your back window stuff instead, lol (while looking for the Monte dash info)

[jft69z]

Here is what I was referring to in regards with the Service manual info. The base Chevelle service info showed the sweep gauges (didn't include that page).

 

 

1970 Chevelle (base):

1970 Monte & Chevelle SS:

 

 

1972 Chevelle:

 

1972 Monte & Chevelle SS:

 

 

Another page that has service info (1972)

[Montemedic]

Interesting !!!

[Canuck]

I think what the mean is:

The Monte Carlo and the Chevelle SS

That’s not meaning it is an SS dash in a Monte. It is an SS dash in a Chevelle.

[Dtret]

Standard chevelle was a sweep dash, could be ordered with SS dash but that still didn’t mean tach and gauges that was still yet another option. 

[RichG]

For Chevelles the standard dash was the sweep dash. If you ordered an SS Chevelle you got the Monte 3 pod dash without woodgrain, with idiot lights (clock was extra). If you ordered the U-14 Special Instrumentation Package you got the Monte 3 pod dash without woodgrain with Tachometer, Speedometer, Clock, Fuel Temp and AMP gauges with Oil Pressure light at bottom of tachometer. The U-14 package was only available on V-8 engines and only in 2 door Sport Coupes, Convertibles and El Caminos. Not available on station wagons or 4 door cars (post or pillarless).

Monte Carlos got the 3 pod dash with woodgrain and idiot lights standard (clock was standard). If you ordered the U-14 Special Instrumentation Package you got the 3 pod dash with woodgrain with Tachometer, Speedometer, Clock, Fuel Temp and AMP gauges with Oil Pressure light at bottom of tachometer. The U-14 package was available on all Monte Carlos because the 350 V-8 was the base engine.

All information is extracted from the 1970 Chevelle and 1970 Monte Carlo factory specification data packages.