bdk70monte Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 I know a lot of people run the 700R4 transmission to get the overdrive in our cars. I am currently running a Turbo 350 trans with a ZZ4 350 crate motor with the fast burn heads. I am eventually going to replace that motor with a big block 402 since the car is originally a big block car. I think I would like to get an overdrive put in my car at some point as well. My question is, does anyone run the 200R4 tranny? I ask because it would allow me to have overdrive without having to change the driveshaft and everything that would be involved with changing to a 700R4. So if anyone has experience, let me know. I value your opinions. Thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heckeng Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 I think those can be extremely good tranny's but I don't know anyone who uses them ironically. Like 700s, they need the right parts put in 'em but certainly a good transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monte70car Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 bdk best thing to do is call trans shops and ask. i did not have to change that much when i went to a 700r4. the 200r4 is a nice trans the gear ratio is close together compare to the 700r4. both can live behind a big block if built right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 I had an Art Carr built 200R4 in my 86 Monte and it was great... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1972mc Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Allan- explain a little more about the 200 vs 700 and why the 200 is better for higher gear rears. Why would you go to all the trouble to put in an OD tranny if you were not going to go higher on your rear gear? What about handling HP? I am at 400 and might work toward 500 over the next few years. Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdk70monte Posted March 14, 2009 Author Share Posted March 14, 2009 The crate motor is rated at 385 HP initially and the Holley carb I have is supposed to add some more to that. I wouldn't be surprised if it's pushing 400 HP as is right now. The big block will be a basically stock set up 402 with a few odds and ends I'm sure, so I would guess 330-400 HP there. I currently have a 3:73 rear gear, but will probably be swapping that out for a lower gear unless I get an overdrive sometime soon. 3:73 is too steep for the Turbo 350 trans that's in it now. I hit 3000 RPM at around 65 MPH. I want to get it to more of a cruiser than it currently is. Once I get the overdrive trans, I will probably go with a more stock 3:31 - 3:42 set up if I don't end up using the 3:73 that I currently have. It was recommended that I may want to go with a 200 over the 700 since I could use the same drive shaft that I have now with the Turbo 350 trans. I just hadn't really seen anybody on here talk about running them, so I wanted to get your impressions/experiences on how they work on a FGMC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdk70monte Posted March 15, 2009 Author Share Posted March 15, 2009 LOL, yeah I know a stock 402 won't get me 400 HP, that's why I said "basically" stock. I'm sure I'll work some odds and ends in there to help it out a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dans '70 Z20 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Be Careful the old Art Carr transmissions no longer has the wisdom of Art Carr. He is involved with a new tranny shop in California and building 2004R's to 1000hp I think. Why not go with the legend. Especially, if its with a tranny that was known to be weak until some of the serious goodies only became available as of recently. http://www.cpttransmission.com Give them a call and pick their brains. Probably worth the call. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Go to the 'original' Art Carr. The guys who took the rights to the old shop are not nearly as good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc8oye Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I run a 3.55 behind a700r4 and I love it.. my engine is slightly better then a stock 350.. I'm running a 'tight' 2500 stall converter (barely notice the stall when just putzing around town) but when I nail it from a light the car just LAUNCHES forward and goes like stink.. the shift into 2nd does come pretty quick.. but for the most part I take it up almost to 6,000rpm before I go for 2nd. it helps with the jump in ratios from 1st to 2nd. with 27" tall tires, I'm turnign 2250 rpm @ 70mph which for my engine is absolutely perfect.. it purrs like contented kitten at those rev's, and the lock-up torque converter elimates any slip from the stall converter while cruizing at a steady speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I am thing about the same thing. My question to you guys is are all 200r4/700r4 created equal? I was looking at the Art Carr and the Bowtie Overdrives but not sure if one is better than the other or are they both just as good? Also any thoughts on lockup vs. non lockup? Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc8oye Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 i had my 700r4 built locally.. other then a reccuring issue with the valve body it's been a solid trans so far.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
680HPStroker Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 It doesn't matter if you stick with the ZZ4, or switch to BB down the road a stock 200/700R4 is a grenade waiting to explode with anything over 300/300. There are benefits as well as hindrences in both transmissions. I feel like every time this subject comes up I end up wanting to bang my head against the wall due to most don't listen to experience and to the advise of the folks who have been building these trannys for the performance community for years. The main issue is the strength of the hard parts inside. For a long performance life you need a hardened sun shell(aka the beast), input, and output shafts. You also need a good valve body as well. A stock unit will work, but if your builder doesn't know akk the performance tricks you are better off with a new performance built valve body. As mentioned the torque is very important. Get it wrong and it won't matter how well the tranny is built your car will be a pig. As mentioned talk to the pro's. Art Carr is one along with GearStar, Bowtie Overdrives, J&W, ATI, and P.A.T.C.(my personal favorite). There are others. Even your local shop may be well versed in building almost bullet proof overdrives. Stay away from the Jeg's/Summit transmissions/converters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
680HPStroker Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Correction; about, convertor, are words either missing, or spelled wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc8oye Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 i've heard that with 700r4's it's not that too difficult to reach a point where the aluminum case becomes the weak link.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clever Idiot Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Sounds like I'd be better off getting a Level 3 trans from Bowtie instead of the Level 2. The crate engine I'm going to put in is rated at 400/400, and the Level 2 trans says it's good for up to 450/500hp and 400/450ft-lbs. The Level 3 beefs up the sun gear even more and says its good for 450+/450+. I'm wondering if being that close to the limit of the Level 2 is putting a timer on trouble down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monte70car Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 McBeast we have two level 2 700's from bowtie overdrive. One in the Monte which has a big block with an est. hp of 390hp. The other is in the Nomad which is a small block with 390hp. The one in the Nomad was matted to a 454 with 450hp and it was fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevyss Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 The 700 I have in my car does well with the 502. I'm trying to find information for Vaughn because he's interested in buying it for his car. I'm not up on transmissions so working with my trans man to make sure it will hold up for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72MC Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I am going to throw this out there but I doubt anyone will pay attention. Gearstar of Akron Ohio builds a tough as nails tranny for all ranges of power. I have a stage 4 4L80 full manual race transmission. In 2 words, "love it". It'll handle 900hp to the rear wheels. Since my engine is only puttin down 525 hp and ftlbs at the flywheel, it is overkill. But, "I will" at some point put an intercooled pro charger on this engine, it was a good buy. The thing that will scare most away is the cost. They are not exactly the cheapest guy in town but, you get what you pay for. From the 300M input shaft to the Yank 3500 stall convertor, they did an outstanding job. No complaints after 2 years of thrashing on it. Based on my conversations with Zach, the owner. They would probably recommend a 2004r over a 700r4 tranny. Kind a like the old Art Carr, the 2004r's can now be built extremely tough. I was originally going to go with a 2004r but after weighing the options, I went with the 4L80 full manual and am glad I did. IMHO, I am not one for the "off the shelf" trannys just like I am not for the "off the shelf" crate engines IN GENERAL. In order to sell these items at a cheap enough price to satisfy the public, corners will and must be cut to obtain and acceptable price. The problem is, as soon as some Joe buys these products they think they have the same quality parts as John Force and thrashes the dog out of the engine and tranny and it breaks. Failures in cheap or used fasteners, timing chains, gaskets, bearings, etc. are the product received from alot, not all, off the shelf products. It is the nature of the beast. Bottom line is know what you want, what your plans are, and what your expectations are and plan from there. A mild street drivin car strictly for cruising probably needs nothing more than a crate engine and an off the shelf tranny. But, that being said, they are not all the same. Cheap price usually equates to a piece of crap in the "long run". - Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 57 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Good points Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowtieThunder Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 The 200r4 is a great tranny and will be just fine.They come in the Grand Nationals and I am sure they can handle a street 402 with no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDavey Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 damn crate motors..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevyss Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Yah! Them darn crate motors. Just no good. Good platform to build on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72MC Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Royce and Davey, never said I didn't like ALL crate engine builders. There are some quality builders putting out quality crate engines. AGAIN, generally speaking, I think when most people look for a crate engine, they focus on $$$ first and worry about the quality of peripheril parts beyond the rotating assembly later. Ah forget it. I am not explaining myself any further. It isn't worth it. - Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clever Idiot Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Initially my plan *was* to build my own engine. Thing is, while I can take it completely apart and get it back together running again, I wanted to build it to 350-400hp with a fat low-end torque band. And it'd be my first engine build. I know enough to know that I don't have the right tools and/or experience to build a 400hp 350 and not be risking missing something. Plus, parts alone will cost me more than the crate from Year One. I'm not going to be racing it, it's going to be a cruiser/weekender most of the time. The Year One engine CT350PC1 is this: * Horsepower: 400+ * Torque: 400+ ft/lbs * Compression ratio: 9.5:1 * Dyno-tested: Yes, includes balancer and 14" flexplate * Dyno sheet: Included with engine's output * Vacuum produced: 12hg @ 800RPM * Recommended fuel: 92 octane * Max recommended RPM- 6000 * Block: Seasoned 4-bolt iron * Crankshaft: Nodular iron * Pistons: Hypereutectic * Connecting rods: Powdered metal * Camshaft- Hydraulic roller * Valve lift:.520" * Duration @ .050" (int/exh): 218deg/228deg * Rocker arms: Stamped steel 1.6:1 ratio * Cylinder heads: Ported Vortec * Valves: Stainless steel 2.02 int/1.60 exh * Valve springs: Heavy duty * Bore x Stroke: 4.030" x 3.48" * Intake manifold: Dual-plane aluminum * Oil pan, timing cover, valve covers included * Engine fasteners: High tensile strength * Warranty: 12 mth/12,000 mi So it might not be the best choice for racing, but I won't be racing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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