wallaby Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I'm looking for an honest answer here: does anyone else feel like the brakes are a little scary? I've driven many different cars and my Monte just has an odd sensation about them...I dunno, the pedal always seems kinda low, and not real firm and I almost have the reaction to pump them (it doesn't help). Am I just spoiled by the wiz-bang anti-lock brakes that every car has now? I'm wondering if these brakes would feel normal if it was 1975... I've tried darn near everything to resolve this. My real question is whether YOUR brakes seem perfectly normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtankjones Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 How old are the break hoses on the front calipers and the hose on the rear breaks were it screws in to the T for both wheel cylinders. If good . Did you try to bleed them? Could have air. or maybe fluid is old and has allot of moisture in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black07ss Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Could have air but I would check to make sure the rear brakes are adjusted tight enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 57 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I never had an issue with my brakes. Never had a low pedal. I have lots of confidence in them. Have you gone over your master cylinder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 these cars are notoriously known for a low pedal if rear brakes are not adjusted properly I have a high and tight pedal on my '71 and like them much! better than these new computer-controlled, ridiculously over-priced things they call brakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cny first gen 71 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 There are several factors than can lead to a low and or soft pedal. The most comon is the rear brakes being out of adjustment. How is the fluid, it can and will absorb moisture and break down, are the calipers moving freely on the slider pins. What I would do is check the complete system front and rear. replace parts as needed. Make sure all the rear parts are working (self adjusters ect.) parking brake cables also. Clean lube and adjust everything and flush out the hydraulic system and bleed it out. If you do need to replace the pads or shoes be sure to resurface the rotors and drums or replace as needed dont put new pads or shoes against the old surface thats just asking for other problems although many have done it in the past but its not worth it. Its really not a bad brake system it should stop the just fine with no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallaby Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 Ok, I guess it IS possible to have good brake pedal on these cars. I've been chasing this problem for many years, just wanted to make sure I wasn't searching for "unobtainium" or something. First, I can attest that adjusting the rear brakes is tough on a posi rear end...there seems to be a great deal of drag on the wheels (can bareley turn them by hand) but it's hard to tell if both sides are adjusted the same. I've done it myself and had a shop do it also. In the rear everything is new except the backing plates: new wheel cylinders, adjusters, hardware kits, shoes and drums. All my flex lines are Earls braided stainless "hyper firm" lines. New proportioning valve, master cylinder, power booster...but that's where I stopped. I have pressure-bled the entire system with new fluid. The front flex lines are braided stainless as well, and tried several different front brake pad compounds. I guess the shorter list is what I haven't done...the front calipers and front rotors. I am thinking that maybe I have enough wobble in the old rotors that it is spreading the pads away from the rotor more than they should be....but I don't detect any pulsation in the pedal when I apply the brakes, so I've kind discounted that theory. I've had the car out to my trusted mechanic for the problem several times and he seems to think they're fine. He did some adjusting in the rear to correct an issue between the parking brake adjustment and shoe adjustment, and that helped a tiny bit. Don't get me wrong; the pedal isn't against the floor or anything. I can put the toe of my boot under the pedal when the brakes are down, but from the drivers' seat the brakes really don't feel like they have much more to give. They seem kinda "removed" and not very solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo's70MCs Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Have you tried a 1" bore master cylinder? The difference is unparalleled. Perhaps! someone else that's done it will chime-in. Are you looking for a stiffer pedal? Or better braking performance? I've always felt the lack of braking performance, not so much in the way of front brakes, but certainly in the rear. Cmon 9 1/2" X 2" in the rear seem awful small for this huge car? Well maybe all around! I don't know, do big blocks have a larger diameter in the rear? From my experience the better braking (performance) for me has come from Semi-metallic pads, and a nice premium shoe in the rear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stangeba Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 "Have you tried a 1" bore master cylinder?" What is standard M/C bore size? 7/8"? Are all three years the same from the factory? There are two manufactures, Delco Moraine and Bendix. Is a master with P/B the same as non-power? I know 70 M/C has a much larger outside body. I've always been concerned when someone replaces their old M/C with a rebuilt one, that it is, in fact, the correct one. (Here I go again talking bad about the rebuild industries) Adjusting the rear brakes on my 71 does wonders in bringing up the peddle and feel of the brakes. It takes care of the parking brake at the same time. I feel that very hard pads with a long or lifetime warranty may cause a higher amount of pedal force to stop vs. the 1970's era asbestos type pads and shoes. Bruce Added link: link to brake system information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo's70MCs Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 All valid points ... As I understand it.. the standard Mcyl bore for front disc brakes to be 1-1/8". The master cyl for drum brakes to be 1" and a smaller bore. Both cars with power assist yet different bore size. Are all three years the same? Maybe not and I don't know the answer to that one. The master for a P/B disc VS drum, is different in reservoir size. Different size volume requirements for a caliper vs a wheel cyl. Rebuilt master cylinders are all grouped and used according to their castings. Back in the day when I dabbled in automotive parts and we still used a Weatherly index nothing was ever sold or kit attached to without a good casting to cross reference. So the manufacturer of the part was secondary, and you would rely on the casting #. Now I thought the rear brake system was self adjusting? The reason I like using semi metallic pads & premium brake-shoes..longevity. Less pad & lining replacements and yet they're are tough on rotors. I would agree that the softer material less effort and better stopping performance, but don't last as long. Using a 1" master cyl, just a nicer feeling pedal..in MHO, all kinds of questions could probably arise from the use of one, yet my experience with it is positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallaby Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 I'm trying to get a higher pedal. I'm thinking if I went to a smaller master diameter, I'd get a lower pedal and more travel... but less effort required. Really I need to get the pedal up higher to feel confident with the brakes. The pedal feels high and firm with the engine off, but once the engine is running the pedal seems to engage the brakes at a much lower place. There just seems to be a lot of pedal travel between "casual braking" and hard braking. I would expect there to be added effort from my leg to do the hard braking, but surprised at the amount of pedal travel required. As I push harder, it does go down further. Not by a lot, mind you, but I feel like I'm pushing ON something, but not AGAINST anything. Does that make sense? Does it sound familiar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cny first gen 71 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 What I woul do next is isolate off the rear and the front brakes seperatly to try to see if its a front problem or rear, its easy to do with rubber hoses but not sure about the braided lines. You said the master and booster were replaced was it replaced with stock or aftermarket? Im assumeing that the pedal is not fading just real soft during heavy braking. Did you bench bleed the master before installing it. And now a dumb question (I ask only because I have seen it before, not insulting your intelligence) are you sure the calipers are on the correct side? The bleeder valve is on the top correct. And yes I have seen this before working in brake shops for 20+ years, you would be suprised what we have seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacob Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 If any ones looking for 11inch drilled and slotted brake rotors for only $31 each summit racing is the place to go and there for a wide range so there not just for your monte carlo.And there having holiday sails soon so get them while there hot and ready. jacob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cny first gen 71 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Where did you see them Jacob I couldnt find them. For that price i'll get a pair even though I dont need them right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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