Joe Szabo Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 Hi every one, working on a friends SS454 that just had a frame off restoration. Currently sorting some electrical issues. I will be joining next week and will be seeking advice on troubleshooting those issues. His other Monte is a 1970 SS454 with a bench seat and automatic on the tree. I will be posting pictures when I create my account. Joe Szabo Dayton Ohio yokie1955@gmail.com 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 Welcome Joe!!! That is cool 2SSs. Ask away we love questions!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC1of80 Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 Welcome Joe! Can't wait for you to become a dues paying member and even more excited for your questions and pics!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jft69z Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 Welcome Joe, you've found the best place to come for information and help. Below is the link to help you become a dues-paying member, and thank you for helping to keep this place going by joining! Any questions with the process, don't hesitate to reach out, we'll get you on the right track. As already mentioned, we like pictures 🙂. https://www.firstgenmc.com/forums/index.php?/membership/joinpage/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtret Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 Welcome Joe. All has been said but I’ll give a welcome from another southern Ohio member ( east of Cincinnati). By the way, best money spent becoming a member. The amount of CORRECT information is unbelievable and we’re all here to help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Szabo Posted August 6, 2023 Author Share Posted August 6, 2023 Thanks all. Posting a few pics. The 70 is green and the 71 is silver. I need to do more troubleshooting to eliminate some potential problems before asking a for advice. Its also nice not to have the interior installed as accessing under the dash is much easier. Regards 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Szabo Posted August 7, 2023 Author Share Posted August 7, 2023 I will start at the beginning. 5 years ago the restoration was started on the 71. After 3 years and with the aid of an an attorney the car was recovered in a disassembled state and was given to another shop to complete. The issues we have encountered so far are as follows. 1. Starter will not engage. We have jumped across the solenoid and it will turn over. Measuring the voltage at the solenoid at the terminal closest to the engine is 8 V DC when the key is in the start position. When turning the key to the start position the the horn buzzer relay clicks. The neutral start on the clutch was not physically or electrically connected. Tested the sw and mounted correctly to the clutch. None of the gauges on the dash are responding when the key is in the on position. Dash lights are also not working. I will post on the Electrical Tech forum. I have attached pics of the 70 taken today. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Szabo Posted August 7, 2023 Author Share Posted August 7, 2023 Forgot to ask. Is the the starter relay in the engine bay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Szabo Posted August 8, 2023 Author Share Posted August 8, 2023 I forgot to mention that this SS454 has the LS6 engine with 425 HP. From what I know this is a rare car to have it mated to the 4 speed trans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtret Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 It would be cool if you had a build sheet on that car. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jft69z Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 45 minutes ago, Joe Szabo said: I forgot to mention that this SS454 has the LS6 engine with 425 HP. From what I know this is a rare car to have it mated to the 4 speed trans. Is it your car Joe, or someone else's, I forgot. Guess I'll be the one to open the can of worms..... There are NO documented Montes, of any year, that came with a LS6 engine...none. Also, there are NO SS454 Montes that came with a manual transmission either. This subject has come up numerous times, and the only documented one with a LS6 was dealer installed from what I remember. Some guys here have seen the car, and know where to point to the documentation of its existence. Without documented proof such as a build sheet or other supporting paperwork that says it left the factory equipped as such, there is no way to verify it is original. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, jft69z said: Is it your car Joe, or someone else's, I forgot. Guess I'll be the one to open the can of worms..... There are NO documented Montes, of any year, that came with a LS6 engine...none. Also, there are NO SS454 Montes that came with a manual transmission either. This subject has come up numerous times, and the only documented one with a LS6 was dealer installed from what I remember. Some guys here have seen the car, and know where to point to the documentation of its existence. Without documented proof such as a build sheet or other supporting paperwork that says it left the factory equipped as such, there is no way to verify it is original. Joe beat me to it. rob 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jft69z Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Just now, Rob Peters said: Joe beat me to it. rob I actually held off for a while..... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Szabo Posted August 8, 2023 Author Share Posted August 8, 2023 LOL I didn't join to determine if the car is factory correct. And no the car is not mine. I have done some of my own research with Hemmings and this is what I found. From Hemmings online. They actually recommend this club as a good source of information. Is this information not correct? PRODUCTION Chevrolet built 145,976 Monte Carlos for 1970, including 3,823 SS 454s and 589 402/four-speeds. For 1971, total Monte Carlo production fell to 128,600 cars, including just 1,919 SS 454s and 349 examples with four-speeds. For 1972, the numbers rebounded to 180,819 Monte Carlos produced. The SS 454 was no longer offered in 1972, nor was a four-speed manual transmission, but 1,268 cars were built with 454s. Only 1,167 Monte Carlos with the column-shifted three-speed were built across all three years, making them rare, though not particularly popular. From Hemmings magazine. see the attachment. These two cars were owned by a person that worked at a GM dealership in Dayton Oh. At one time in the 60's and 70's Dayton had 7 GM plants, only Detroit had more. Perhaps this car was a COPO? I also agree that with no build sheet and the fact GM did not start to put engine codes included in the VIN until 1972 there is no way to verify that this is all factory. Also the engine is a LS6 as it was rebuilt with LS6 parts. Lets move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Hemmings is incorrect as many publications like that often are. There were no SS454 4-speeds or LS6 in a Monte from the factory. In any case, both are great cars. 🙂 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jft69z Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 50 minutes ago, Joe Szabo said: From Hemmings online. They actually recommend this club as a good source of information. Is this information not correct? This is a great place for information, we just don't operate off of here say, or one article in a magazine. 41 minutes ago, Canuck said: Hemmings is incorrect as many publications like that often are. There were no SS454 4-speeds or LS6 in a Monte from the factory. Thank you Aaron. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC1of80 Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Ohhhh you can verify authenticity! The vin should be on the block and transmission. You don't need a build sheet to verify that. A sticker for an LS6 on an air cleaner lid does not prove a thing other than it's an LS6 style sticker. Sorry, couldn't stay quiet any longer. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jft69z Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 So here's what I'm willing to do.... in order to help pay for your time to search the usual places where a build sheet would be hiding (back seat, front seats, top of gas tank, etc), if you can produce one here, I'll cover the cost of your membership dues you just paid. If it turns out the build sheet says 'LS6', that's a huge win for everyone in our community, that's the holy grail! If it turns out it's a regular LS5, no harm, at least we know that too. Sound good? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Szabo Posted August 8, 2023 Author Share Posted August 8, 2023 Hmm, really don't need the $25. I'm not trying to prove if its factory. As stated above there is no build sheet. The interior is gutted and being recovered. I will check on the gas tank location and also see if the upholsterer finds any paperwork. More backstory on me. I was a CAD/CAM consultant and worked at most of the GM plants in Dayton in the 80's. In saw many prototypes and COPD vehicles that were one offs. I I'm just saying, just because you have not seen one it does not mean it does not exist. The GM COPD program still exists today. It allows special orders for certain folks in GM to places special orders. And believe me there were a lot of folks in Dayton that would qualify back in the day. I'm not saying this is a COPO car but who is to say its not? Again I just wan to get this beast running again after a lot of grief my friend suffered for the last 5 years. Question I have provided Hemmings documentation that contradicts what was posted on this thread. Is there any documentation to dispute this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jft69z Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 16 minutes ago, Joe Szabo said: Hmm, really don't need the $25. I'm not trying to prove if its factory. As stated above there is no build sheet. The interior is gutted and being recovered. I will check on the gas tank location and also see if the upholsterer finds any paperwork. I have provided Hemmings documentation that contradicts what was posted on this thread. Is there any documentation to dispute this? We'd just like to see proof that a real LS6 Monte exists, simple as that. As Aaron stated, Hemmings is often wrong on details, especially when it concerns Montes. I also have a Chevelle Restoration book that's very popular, however that has wrong information in it too, that has bitten me when I used it as the only source of info. Others had also found discrepancies in that book, as I found out later while searching. The only documentation to dispute whatever Hemmings has written will be a valid build sheet or corporate documentation. Absent that, it's all just words. We'd really just like to know that a LS6 actually left the factory, it'd be better to us than finding out where Jimmy Hoffa is sleeping 😁 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC1of80 Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Vin # on the block and or transmission match the cars vin?? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jft69z Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 14 hours ago, MC1of80 said: Vin # on the block and or transmission match the cars vin?? I'm going to send him the engine code sheets, and he's going to look at that. Just got off the phone with him, really good conversation. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Agree with Joe and Tom, (Not that Joe doesn't have a point) but the simple way would be checking the block and the tranny! If that works out that will tell us Tons!!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 1 minute ago, willie said: Agree with Joe and Tom, (Not that Joe doesn't have a point) but the simple way would be checking the block and the tranny! If that works out that will tell us Tons!!! (Not that Joe S doesn't have a point) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Yes, the engine and trans numbers would settle this easily. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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