MCfan Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I've needed to solve some dash lighting and function problems in my 4-speed car for awhile. Recently, I ordered a new circuit board for my idiot light instrument cluster but it was placed on back order for several weeks. In the meantime, Andreas provided a link to an eBay seller who offers complete kits to upgrade idiot light clusters to full gauge clusters in the original factory configuration and look. So, I cancelled my back ordered circuit board and ordered the complete kit (which included a new circuit board to support the gauges, of course). I've also been wanting to do the LED conversion so I ordered LEDs and sockets as well. Today, I finished my dash upgrade project and I am very pleased with the results. The project was well worth the time, effort and money involved. I also put together a brief photo journal in case anyone else is wanting a similar result. Here's the direct link to the photo journal: http://s912.photobucket.com/albums/ac329/dbengtson4/Full%20Gauge%20Cluster%20Upgrade/ Here are similar before and after photos: The old Sun tach is already gone but I have yet to remove the old three analog gauge cluster under the dash. That will eventually happen, of course, after I confirm the reliability and accuracy of the new gauges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS5 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Hey Dennis is that the kit from Sonnie24 on Ebay. ???? if it is then thats the same kit I ordered as well.. just curious and it does look gooooood..... Darren.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70mcarlo Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Dennis - nice work! It's always a real treat to read about your projects and the accompanying photo journals!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCfan Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 Hey Dennis is that the kit from Sonnie24 on Ebay. ???? if it is then thats the same kit I ordered as well.. just curious and it does look gooooood..... Darren.. Thanks, Darren. Yes, I ordered the kit from Sonnie24 on eBay based on the link Andreas provided in post #390693. You had also provided a vote of confidence for that seller (post #390710) that I can now "second" with confidence. The seller shipped the same day from California and I received the kit in Florida five days later. The kit was complete and securely packed to avoid damage. To be honest, I didn't shop around for other kits so I don't know about his price, but from the quality of everything he provided, I feel like I got a good value. I suppose one small thing the seller could improve would be to update his cryptic wiring instruction sheets. Obviously, they were adequate for a novice like myself to figure out, but one sheet had most of one paragraph lined out - rather unnerving. The instructions also assume a lot knowledge on the installer's part (not a problem for many of you experienced car guys). Specifically, more information regarding the where to find, how to remove/re-install, and how to modify the three plugs/connectors that must be rewired would be extremely helpful. At least the instructions had freehand drawings of the plugs/connectors that were accurate enough to help identify them. More complete and clear instructions would make this an A++ kit, IMO. Will you be installing your kit anytime soon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughn Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Looks great Dennis. Sure lights up the dash!!! I like the LED conversion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71 MONTE 4 YA Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Great job once again Dennis!! PM sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Outstanding Dennis! This project is on my list also.....One question, what's the RED light at the bottom of the Tach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71 MONTE 4 YA Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Outstanding Dennis! This project is on my list also.....One question, what's the RED light at the bottom of the Tach? I think it is the oil pressure light Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCfan Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 Outstanding Dennis! This project is on my list also.....One question, what's the RED light at the bottom of the Tach? Thanks, Murray. The red light is the oil pressure warning light. I had the key "on" but the engine was not running when I took that photo. The light goes out as soon as oil pressure is available to the sending unit. Just like the stock gauge package, there is a warning light but no oil pressure gauge in this conversion kit. That concerned me at first because I have an oil pressure gauge in my old analog gauge cluster under the dash and I have checked it from time to time. However, due to its location, it is difficult to read in the daylight while driving (and almost impossible to read at night even though it's lit up). I asked myself if I really need to know what the oil pressure is as long as the warning light doesn't come on (and I trust it to be working). Since I don't race the car or even drive it aggressively, I decided I was probably okay with the warning light. I am going to watch my old oil pressure gauge compared to the warning light and may opt to mount a single oil pressure gauge in a discrete location. I have also seen articles where guys have placed a factory-looking oil pressure gauge in the dash cluster where the alternator amp gauge is, feeling that knowing oil pressure under various operating scenarios is more important than knowing charging amps (hard to argue with that). I am amazed at how many other members are planning to do this project and have asked for more information. I will try to get a better package together with sources of the products I used and some documentation of my own instructions and tips for installing this particular conversion kit. It may take me a few days to pull that together with the approaching holidays but some of it is already in the captions of the slides in the photo journal. I wish now that I had taken more detailed photos. And to think I almost did not document this project at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Your photo journal was great. Not having or seen a monte with gauges makes me ask questions.......Here's my thoughts having the same idiot light cluster as you, I was considering replacing the clock with a tach (Shiftworks) and then the 3 smaller pods used for volts, oil press, water temp. The Tachman, apparently has a similar conversion package. I'd want oil press. vs a clock is the bottom line. Keeping the large fuel gauge is the key, making room for a small oil Pressure gauge. Now the correct PCB mods is the issue..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCfan Posted December 19, 2012 Author Share Posted December 19, 2012 Murray, I think you would get great satisfaction out of a project to customize your instrument panel as you wish. If you have basic electrical knowledge and the ability to read and understand wiring diagrams, I am certain you could figure it out and make it work just fine. I am not quite that adventurous and also wanted the instrument clusters in my two '70s to match. The conversion kit I purchased did that to my personal satisfaction. I am sure there are other sources and other kits out there that you can use to accomplish some or all of your vision. I suppose talking directly to the suppliers will be your best avenue to a complete kit or set of useful components. Basically any gauge needs three things: power, signal and mounting. There is considerable, yet limited, space, capacity and flexibility in your stock dash cluster to do quite a lot if you can get gauges that fit the available openings and can be mounted in or on the cluster housing. If you also want to get electrical power and/or signals directly from the PCB, however, you will either need to match a standard PCB configuration or find someone who can provide a custom configuration. As, you probably know, the master plug for the dash cluster carries up to 12 independent circuits. Beyond that, power (i.e. clock power, tach power, etc.) can be supplied directly by wires to the eternal connectors of the component. IF (and that's big IF) the external connectors to your chosen gauges can match the circuit pattern attachment points of an available PCB, you can easily configure/rewire the main plug to route the correct power and signals to the gauge. I used my 1970 Monte Wiring Diagram to help me understand the colors and purposes of the wires going into that main cluster connector/plug. As expected, because there are at least two different factory PCBs (idiot lights vs. gauges), the diagram becomes non-specific as to which of the 12 plug contacts actually connects to which light or gauge. I do know (now) that four of the twelve wires are in exactly the same position on both PCBs. In my conversion, I had to change the position of six existing wires and add two new ones (which filled up the plug). All it takes is a tiny flat blade screwdriver and faith in the instructions! Of course, getting electrical power and/or signals from the main plug to the gauge through the PCB is just part of the battle. Next, you need to figure out if (and where) there are spare slots in the firewall plug that you can use to access the power source and signal sources in the engine compartment. In the case of my conversion, I needed to add two power wires to the plugs on both sides of the firewall. Also, a signal wire for the tach had to be run separately through a hole in the firewall (already there for my old tach) to the negative side of the coil (or Tach port on your HEI). Two longer power wires had to be added to matching locations in the engine side firewall plug and then routed to available power sources (i.e. horn relay, battery junction block or battery itself). Obviously, none of this stuff is rocket science. If you design exactly what you want in your cluster, look at what is available through an existing PCB (including plug rewiring possibilities) and then note what needs to be added and figure out where and how to add it, you can probably have whatever you want. Go for it! I'm sure you can do it - just let us know how you did it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stangeba Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Great job and great pictures! Thank You! Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footballubet Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 That is the same package I installed on my other dash. Very well written instructions and all the needed parts supplied. I also did the LED upgrade. Well worth the cost of the bulbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostnFound Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Well done Dennis! I think this thread should be saved in the archives for future reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 very nice!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 LS5 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Kudos to Dennis - you always provide a great description, photos, and willingness to help other club members. I also have been talking about doing this, but while I'm in there, I should get my A/C going too! And while its gutted, the rest of the interior should be refreshed, and do the body mounts, and its also time for paint.....cha-ching! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCfan Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 Thanks for the feedback, Mike! I sent a file to the email listed in your profile so I hope it is current. It may help a bit with the dash conversion, but no way does it touch on all that other stuff! That sounds like a major snowball!! Good luck with it all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 LS5 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Got it, thanks - I replied....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGD72Monte Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Thanks for posting this Dennis, good work. Just to confirm, those LEDs are dimmable right? Also, how well do they blend in with remaining dash light type bulbs i.e. those in the floor console? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCfan Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 MG, no, the LEDs I purchased are not "dimmable" nor did I expect them to be. As I turn the headlight switch knob, the intensity stays the same until I hit the "off" position. They apparently require so much less current to operate that they are unaffected by the range of currents that the rheostat produces. There may be some "dimmable" LEDs out there, but I have not encountered them yet. In regard to your "blending" question, I suppose they blend electrically better than they do visually. When I was testing the converted instrument cluster, I used an old-style socket with an 1895 incandescent bulb to be sure I had power at that PCB location. That bulb worked fine in the same circuit with LEDs, but it gave off a yellowish light compared to the whiter light of the LEDs. Of course, the '70 instruments all have light green florescent numerals and markings so the dash has a green glow even with the white LEDs. I have not yet converted any other interior lights to LEDs but I only have a dome light and the floor light at the very back of the console. Both give off very yellowish light. I'm getting the courtesy light set from Murray to get more lighting in the passenger compartment so I'll explore LEDs more when I do that project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGD72Monte Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Thanks for the clarification Dennis, the technical explanation makes perfect sense. I've been debating whether to go this route eventually, I find the OEM dash lights to be way too dim and overall much dimmer than the aftermarket gauges I have under the dash. I guess I'm kind of worried the LEDs would give me the opposite problem i.e. be too bright compared to my other gauges and there would be nothing I can do about it. Probably ridiculous concern but still on the fence at this time, would sure like to see this in person. Thanks again for your response and definetly interested in your review of other applications for LEDs inside the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7tonemonte Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 I dont find my LED lights too bright MG,I was concerned about it when I did the conversion though. I ended up using the green bulbs, just because they were green But the new gauges I used on the A-Pillar have the green LED as well, and they are almost too bright! I see alot of the newer cars with LED interior lights, and I love the look of them, its definately the way to go IMO I dont really have a good picture, but here is the only one I had online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 there are so many different LED's available now, different brightnesses, dimmable, colors, and use way less energy I'm sure you could find what you want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGD72Monte Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 So there are some dimmables then! I guess I'll have to do more research. Thanks all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 http://www.superbrightleds.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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