Rob Peters Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 We have always had three different classes. The officers are discussing a possible change to this policy. For any meet with registrations of 40 or more cars registered we are looking into adding one additional class. This new class would be an expansion/addition to the MODIFIED Class. A large majority of the cars we had at the Carlisle Mini-Meet were registered with Carlisle Events in the Modified Class. Currently the classes are as follows: Stock Class: 0 to 3 Alterations from Factory Correct Street Class 4 to 6 Alterations from Factory Correct Modified Class 7 or more Alterations from Factory Correct In adding the new class the first two classes would not change. the changes would be as follows (Changes are in RED: Stock Class: 0 to 3 Alterations from Factory Correct Street Class 4 to 6 Alterations from Factory Correct Modified Class: 7 to 11 Alterations from Factory Correct Super Modified or Custom Modified: 12 or more Alterations from Factory Correct Again, this would only be for any meet with 40 or more cars registered. This would start with the 2024 Eastern Meet in Carlisle. I have asked Carlisle Events if it is possible for them to implement this change in their system for large groups holding meets at their events. No matter what, we are planning to do this for our group at Carlisle in 2024. Your thoughts are welcome in this change. rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragCat Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 Oh geez 🤣 Now I gotta count if I have more than 11 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC1of80 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 You and I both! Lolol 😂🤣😂🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cny first gen 71 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 Now we gotta take off our shoes to count 😅 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searsman Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 My 71 has been labeled by one of the clubs officers as a “day Two “car, where you buy the car, make a few changes for your taste, but don’t go way inside modifying.. makes it difficult to qualify for street , and difficult to compete against a fully souped up modified beautiful car in the modified category.. I have long been an advocate of having more categories when it comes to judging... Note: that is not the main purpose of our events, but it is a morale booster knowing your work and taste are appreciated . There are others that can benefit from this good idea.. I hope that additional class is implemented.. Ron... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragCat Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 I'm not really worried about it, Ive never really counted 🙃 I just went with the "most"modifications class 🤣 And NO I'm not scrutinizing the rules, but what are "safety" alterations, headlights? And NO I'm not trying to stir the pot, but for those without a build sheet......is it an alteration if our Monte was possibly optioned with things we added ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbolt Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 If it ain't broke don't fix it. What is broken? Talking to folks as they are doing the judging, that is the hardest part of the whole meet experience. Adding a class, in my opinion, just adds to the already difficult job of selecting the best of a great group of cars. This past EM there were only 3 cars in the modified class as stated on the window placards. It would make more sense to me to break down the huge group of cars in the stock class into at least one more sub-category as the stock class seems to have the majority of cars. Are we looking to give out more awards to more members? Is that the goal? Just curious. I have to admit that when doing my "judging" sheet and being unable to ascertain a clear winner in the various categories a lot of time my final decision comes down to who hasn't won before, or who is a new member. One more "unwritten criteria" I draw from while filling out my form. I know, not hardcore judging but most times its quite difficult to select one car that is head and shoulders above the others enough that the category is clearly won. (does that make sense?) To answer Mark, the safety modifications are things like aftermarket shoulder seatbelts and headlights that are brighter than stock incandescent bulbs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted July 3, 2023 Author Share Posted July 3, 2023 2 hours ago, DragCat said: I'm not really worried about it, Ive never really counted 🙃 I just went with the "most"modifications class 🤣 And NO I'm not scrutinizing the rules, but what are "safety" alterations, headlights? And NO I'm not trying to stir the pot, but for those without a build sheet......is it an alteration if our Monte was possibly optioned with things we added ? Mark, the safety alterations we allow that were not available from the factory are 3-point seat belt system and right hand (Passenger Side) side view mirror. What we do not count as alterations are things that were options available from the factory that were not on your car when it was built. Some examples... If you car had a bench seat but you installed factory buckets, your car came with idiot lights and you installed factory guages or anything else that was available for your Monte in the year it was made but not ordered that way and you were able to obtain factory original and installed on your car. I hope that is clear. rob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted July 3, 2023 Author Share Posted July 3, 2023 2 hours ago, cbolt said: If it ain't broke don't fix it. What is broken? Talking to folks as they are doing the judging, that is the hardest part of the whole meet experience. Adding a class, in my opinion, just adds to the already difficult job of selecting the best of a great group of cars. This past EM there were only 3 cars in the modified class as stated on the window placards. It would make more sense to me to break down the huge group of cars in the stock class into at least one more sub-category as the stock class seems to have the majority of cars. Are we looking to give out more awards to more members? Is that the goal? Just curious. Jim, that is rare. At our Mini-Meet in Carlisle this past week there were more than 10 cars in the Modified class, I think 3 in the Street class and only 4 in the stock class. We had a lot of cancellations but if everyone had shown up we would have had 19 cars in the Modified 8 in Street and 6 in Stock. Those numbers are reflective of normal Eastern Meets in Carlisle, the Modified class is usually almost 2 to 1 over any other class. rob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC1of80 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 19 minutes ago, Rob Peters said: Mark, the safety alterations we allow that were not available from the factory are 3-point seat belt system and right hand (Passenger Side) side view mirror. What we do not count as alterations are things that were options available from the factory that were not on your car when it was built. Some examples... If you car had a bench seat but you installed factory buckets, your car came with idiot lights and you installed factory guages or anything else that was available for your Monte in the year it was made but not ordered that way and you were able to obtain factory original and installed on your car. I hope that is clear. rob Rob, I just want to make sure I'm reading this correctly. If I have a plain Jane Monte and install factory correct bucket seats, console, gauges, bumper guards, f-41 suspension, 4 speed, 12 bolt, tilt column, power windows and locks, wide belt mouldings, door edge guards, power trunk etc, as long as they could have been ordered from the factory its NOT considered an alteration and I could register the car in say, the stock class? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbolt Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 7 hours ago, Rob Peters said: Jim, that is rare. At our Mini-Meet in Carlisle this past week there were more than 10 cars in the Modified class, I think 3 in the Street class and only 4 in the stock class. We had a lot of cancellations but if everyone had shown up we would have had 19 cars in the Modified 8 in Street and 6 in Stock. Those numbers are reflective of normal Eastern Meets in Carlisle, the Modified class is usually almost 2 to 1 over any other class. rob You didn't address what needed to be changed. Is the goal to hand out more awards to members? Make the judging easier? (more time intensive) Not following the rationale behind adding a class, especially as the judging part is my least favorite (and most stressful) activity of the meets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragCat Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 7 hours ago, MC1of80 said: Rob, I just want to make sure I'm reading this correctly. If I have a plain Jane Monte and install factory correct bucket seats, console, gauges, bumper guards, f-41 suspension, 4 speed, 12 bolt, tilt column, power windows and locks, wide belt mouldings, door edge guards, power trunk etc, as long as they could have been ordered from the factory its NOT considered an alteration and I could register the car in say, the stock class? Thats the way I read it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragCat Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 7 hours ago, Rob Peters said: Mark, the safety alterations we allow that were not available from the factory are 3-point seat belt system and right hand (Passenger Side) side view mirror. What we do not count as alterations are things that were options available from the factory that were not on your car when it was built. Some examples... If you car had a bench seat but you installed factory buckets, your car came with idiot lights and you installed factory guages or anything else that was available for your Monte in the year it was made but not ordered that way and you were able to obtain factory original and installed on your car. I hope that is clear. rob Thanks Rob, Now you've peaked my interest and I'm gonna have to go through my Monte and count. Ive got 3 unauthorized "safety" modifications off the top of my head, headlights, tail lights, and a drive shaft loop. 🤣 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jft69z Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 8 hours ago, MC1of80 said: Rob, I just want to make sure I'm reading this correctly. If I have a plain Jane Monte and install factory correct bucket seats, console, gauges, bumper guards, f-41 suspension, 4 speed, 12 bolt, tilt column, power windows and locks, wide belt mouldings, door edge guards, power trunk etc, as long as they could have been ordered from the factory its NOT considered an alteration and I could register the car in say, the stock class? 1 hour ago, DragCat said: Thats the way I read it. What's the build sheet say? J/K, personally it doesn't matter to me. I'm at the FGMCC meets to see our people, and wouldn't even bring my car if there was an easier way to get the tent and chairs to our area on the show field. 😁 Just for grins, I went to the Carlisle site to look over the classes again. In my travels, I saw that our very good friends and pals, the fiero bunch have their own guidelines set up for classes. It does have some points to ponder there (as much as it pains me to say it), if this is being opened up here for discussion. https://sites.google.com/site/midatlanticfieroownersassoc/classifying-your-car 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted July 3, 2023 Author Share Posted July 3, 2023 7 hours ago, MC1of80 said: Rob, I just want to make sure I'm reading this correctly. If I have a plain Jane Monte and install factory correct bucket seats, console, gauges, bumper guards, f-41 suspension, 4 speed, 12 bolt, tilt column, power windows and locks, wide belt mouldings, door edge guards, power trunk etc, as long as they could have been ordered from the factory its NOT considered an alteration and I could register the car in say, the stock class? Tom, that is correct. Without a build sheet how do we know how any car left the factory. Most of us know Flint cars didn't have build sheets. rob 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtret Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 I guess I am confused?? ( imagine that). So basically what just happened in the above comments is you just moved my 71 to the stock class instead of modified. Any and all alterations I did were all done with factory gm parts as the factory would have built it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cny first gen 71 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 Yes it is a can of worms being opened. As far as I'm concerned it really don't matter to me. The po of my car had an award in the car when I looked at it for most original car from somewhere (not sure where) and did have several modifications already, nothing major just steering wheel, valve covers, radio stuff like that but as far as our standard far from original. I always register mine as street and still will. I'm not there to win anything I'm there to have fun and meet with the other members which have become friends. As Forest would say " that's all I got to say about that" 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted July 3, 2023 Author Share Posted July 3, 2023 36 minutes ago, Dtret said: I guess I am confused?? ( imagine that). So basically what just happened in the above comments is you just moved my 71 to the stock class instead of modified. Any and all alterations I did were all done with factory gm parts as the factory would have built it. Dennis, For our Eastern Meets we have almost always set the member judging guidelines and allowed our members to select what class their car should be in. If one of the officers notice a car is not in the proper class. That said, we do not go out looking specifically looking for misclassed cars. That said, if a member comes to us and feels someone else's car is not classed properly we will inspect that car and ask that person to move their car to a different class. If a member requests us to inspect a car for reclassification they can do that without us exposing who they are. Us asking a member to reclass their car is only to be fair to others in their class. Let me make something clear. The alterations we are talking about would be what we consider "obvious" alterations. We are not going to start crawling under cars to start looking at not obvious things under the car. Afterall, our officers are also there to enjoy the show. We are talking mostly about obvious things that someone may notice looking at the car from walking around the car, looking into the engine compartment and interior compartment. Most of us are not there for the awards, they are a bonus. That said, the awards do mean something to some of our members so to be fair to all we request members properly class their cars. Most people, when asked to reclass their car are very nice about it. We have had people who have been asked to reclass their car and then won in their reclassed category. When I asked the other officers about their thoughts on adding a new class this they felt it was a good thing for our members so that is why we have posted this information. rob 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtret Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 I will add more. Keep in mind I also don’t care about what class I’m in and if I never win an award I’m good with that. It’s all about the Fgmcc community for me. I leave a copy of my build sheet on the front seat for anyone to see. So yes I’m modified and I have no problem with that. I get it. It was just more of a clarification thing for me. My pos70 does not have a build sheet but at this point I’m just adding the console and floor shift. But I will still probably register that as modified. Again no problem with the classes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtret Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 5 minutes ago, Rob Peters said: Dennis, For our Eastern Meets we have almost always set the member judging guidelines and allowed our members to select what class their car should be in. If one of the officers notice a car is not in the proper class. That said, we do not go out looking specifically looking for misclassed cars. That said, if a member comes to us and feels someone else's car is not classed properly we will inspect that car and ask that person to move their car to a different class. If a member requests us to inspect a car for reclassification they can do that without us exposing who they are. Us asking a member to reclass their car is only to be fair to others in their class. Let me make something clear. The alterations we are talking about would be what we consider "obvious" alterations. We are not going to start crawling under cars to start looking at not obvious things under the car. Afterall, our officers are also there to enjoy the show. We are talking mostly about obvious things that someone may notice looking at the car from walking around the car, looking into the engine compartment and interior compartment. Most of us are not there for the awards, they are a bonus. That said, the awards do mean something to some of our members so to be fair to all we request members properly class their cars. Most people, when asked to reclass their car are very nice about it. We have had people who have been asked to reclass their car and then won in their reclassed category. When I asked the other officers about their thoughts on adding a new class this they felt it was a good thing for our members so that is why we have posted this information. rob Rob you got that in before I got my addition in. Lol. All is fine. No issue whatsoever. I think what is done is really fair actually. A true “stock” car needs to be recognized as such because they are few and far between. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragCat Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 10 minutes ago, Rob Peters said: Let me make something clear. The alterations we are talking about would be what we consider "obvious" alterations. We are not going to start crawling under cars to start looking at not obvious things under the car. Afterall, our officers are also there to enjoy the show. We are talking mostly about obvious things that someone may notice looking at the car from walking around the car, looking into the engine compartment and interior compartment. Most of us are not there for the awards, they are a bonus. That said, the awards do mean something to some of our members so to be fair to all we request members properly class their cars. I think that pretty well sums it up. I'll assume most members try to categorize their Monte's correctly and honestly. As I said this post has peaked my own interest, I had to check the resource page to see if 355 gears were an option (they're not🤣) I can't speak of awards/trophies since I've never brought my "so called" Monte to a meet 🤣 but I've enjoyed every one so far 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragCat Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 2 hours ago, jft69z said: Just for grins, I went to the Carlisle site to look over the classes again. In my travels, I saw that our very good friends and pals, the fiero bunch have their own guidelines set up for classes. It does have some points to ponder there (as much as it pains me to say it), if this is being opened up here for discussion. https://sites.google.com/site/midatlanticfieroownersassoc/classifying-your-car Interesting, and if you post anything from the Corvette club I'm gonna block your number 🤣 Interesting information they have (also reminded me that my kick panel speakers are not stock) So maybe later today while I'm enjoying a cold adult beverage I'll get the clipboard out and go through the car. More curious than actually figuring out which class I'm in. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searsman Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 I went to the fiero site Joe T listed, there are some good points to consider, one being any “ Major “ modification automatically classes the car in modified. Example : complete engine conversions..There are still 3 judging classes however. Evidently they seem to be more lenient on qualifying for their middle class. Street. This is a good discussion, certainly wouldn’t want to emulate the fiero club, but I have full confidence in what our administration decides now that this has been brought up to the club. Whether it stays the same as now, or is more precisely detailed in class categories, I’m sure it will be best for all , new and senior membership. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted July 3, 2023 Author Share Posted July 3, 2023 1 hour ago, DragCat said: I think that pretty well sums it up. I'll assume most members try to categorize their Monte's correctly and honestly. As I said this post has peaked my own interest, I had to check the resource page to see if 355 gears were an option (they're not🤣) I can't speak of awards/trophies since I've never brought my "so called" Monte to a meet 🤣 Trust me Mark, we are aware of that and let you know that at the mini-meet. rob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC1of80 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 4 hours ago, Rob Peters said: Tom, that is correct. Without a build sheet how do we know how any car left the factory. Most of us know Flint cars didn't have build sheets. rob That's what I thought you meant Rob. Thank you for clarifying it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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