willie Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Joe S i think we all wish we had some kind of proof that there is the Holy Grail out there but/and can't wait till she pops up!!! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Joe, I think I see where your confusion enters in. In reality it appears that much of what you quoted from Hemmings may have come from our website because the figures pretty much jive with what we have here on the club website in the "Resources" area under "Production Numbers" Below is a quote from your post and what the confusion is: PRODUCTION Chevrolet built 145,976 Monte Carlos for 1970, including 3,823 SS 454s and 589 402/four-speeds. For 1971, total Monte Carlo production fell to 128,600 cars, including just 1,919 SS 454s and 349 examples with four-speeds. For 1972, the numbers rebounded to 180,819 Monte Carlos produced. The SS 454 was no longer offered in 1972, nor was a four-speed manual transmission, but 1,268 cars were built with 454s. Only 1,167 Monte Carlos with the column-shifted three-speed were built across all three years, making them rare, though not particularly popular. What it really says: 1970: - 3823 SS454's Produced - 589 402 4-speeds produced  So their numbers are correct.   What it DOES NOT say is the combined numbers of SS454 and and 402 with 4-Speeds was 589, only that the 589 were Monte's with a 402 Big Blocks. 1971 - 1919 SS454's Produced - When they say "and 349 examples with four-speeds they are saying 349 Monte's with 350, 400 and 402 engines. There is no documentations of any SS Monte's having anything except TH400 transmissions.  Joe, I can see where you could read their numbers and think SS454 with a manual transmission were produced but if you look at their numbers and our numbers you will see their document could be misunderstood. I hope this clears up the misunderstanding. So what others have told you is true, there are no documented factory SS454's with anything except a TH400 Transmission nor is there proof of any LS6 factory First Gen Monte's rob 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon-tss Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Hate to discourage people; But I doubt if they are even SS cars from what I am seeing. 71 SS LS-6 Four speed with air; Sorry COPO can't even get you that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jft69z Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 13 hours ago, Canuck said: Yes, the engine and trans numbers would settle this easily. He'll be out of town for a few days and won't be near the car. Next week when he gets a look at it, maybe we can come up with some info. Â Here is some of the info I emailed him, that has some interesting stuff regarding LS6. http://chevellestuff.net/1971/engine_id_codes.htm http://chevellestuff.net/1971/engines/index.htm 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Cant wait i have an Army full of dancing bananas just waiting for the Go Ahead!!!  Come on Joe S !!! 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overdrive Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Hi Joe. Welcome to the first gen club. We've been hoping to find an original factory LS6 Monte, or a 4 speed for a long time. Each time a car has been inspected for the numbers and codes, it has come up short. The casting number of the block and the stamped suffix code will tell if the engine is the original to the car. The transmission will also have a partial VIN.  There were a number of guys that tried to order a Monte with an LS6, but they were denied. I have a '71, 402, 4 speed that was "settled for" after a GM employee tried to order an SS454 with a 4 speed. The guy tried to use his position to get a car that wasn't offered to the public, but his order was denied after being sent in. The LS6 Monte that was referred to earlier was modified right out of the factory not by a dealership, but by Dick Harrell Performance Centers of KC, MO. Here is some good information.   Dan  6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jft69z Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 1 hour ago, overdrive said: The LS6 Monte that was referred to earlier was modified right out of the factory not by a dealership, but by Dick Harrell Performance Centers of KC, MO. Here is some good information. That's the car I was thinking of Dan, thx! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420ponies Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 This would be a great find on an original Monte Carlo! I'm lovin' the 4spd behind that Big Block.  Could this be an original 4spd car? That Dick Harrell car ,was that at Carlisle a while back? I've got to ask, why is there a picture of my car in this thread? Raining here, working on my BBC ,can you believe it? Just finished up the oil pump/pan  install. Next, motor mounts, water pump, then we get to play with pushrod/rocker arm geometry. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overdrive Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 420ponies, click on the link. It'll take you to the thread. I have no idea why your car pic was in that thread. Possibly it's a cyber space malfunction. Nice car!  Dan  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Szabo Posted August 13, 2023 Author Share Posted August 13, 2023 Thanks for the info!! Just got back form Cleveland OH. I was attending our state Loyal order of the Moose convention over the weekend. They did get the engine to turn over by adjusting the clutch neutral switch. Now we are waiting on the throttle cable as it was cut during the restoration. Should have the engine code in a few days. As far as the transmission code from the documentation that Joe T sent me the code is stamped on the right side of the casing. Can this be seen easily? Keep you posted. Thanks again Joe S  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jft69z Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Joe Szabo said: Thanks for the info!! Just got back form Cleveland OH. I was attending our state Loyal order of the Moose convention over the weekend. They did get the engine to turn over by adjusting the clutch neutral switch. Now we are waiting on the throttle cable as it was cut during the restoration. Should have the engine code in a few days. As far as the transmission code from the documentation that Joe T sent me the code is stamped on the right side of the casing. Can this be seen easily? Keep you posted. Thanks again Joe S  Hey Joe, There should also be a number on the left side, stamped around the shift linkage area (above the oil pan flange). It should be the last few numbers of the VIN, if it came with the car originally. EDIT: Just woke up and forgot you had a manual transmission. The above info was related to an auto trans. On a stick shift, there should also be a stamped code and also part of the VIN sequence on the case. https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/1607-how-to-identify-a-muncie-four-speed-build-date-codes-vins-and-input-shaft/ http://chevellestuff.net/qd/muncie.htm https://www.ecklers.com/pit-stop-blog/early-muncie-4-speed-identification/ https://www.chevydiy.com/muncie-4-speed-identification-guide/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 Here is how to find and decode the codes on a 70-72 Monte transmission https://www.firstgenmc.com/forums/index.php?/resources/decodingtransmission/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Richey Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 These holy grail post can't help but get my hopes up 😠I built a what IF Several years ago 70 SS 454 black with red interior. It had some guy on a facebook group, swearing these cars were offered with red interior even give stories that he had seen some. 😳 Like no you didn't haha 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 46 minutes ago, Jared Richey said: These holy grail post can't help but get my hopes up 😠I built a what IF Several years ago 70 SS 454 black with red interior. It had some guy on a facebook group, swearing these cars were offered with red interior even give stories that he had seen some. 😳 Like no you didn't haha I know we would all love to see one of these "Holy Grail'" cars. Many of us have been doing and researching these things for years now and finding no proof they exist. Without some kind of documentation they do not exist. That said..... we still look and will continue to look. Maybe some day we will be proven wrong, who knows. rob 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Szabo Posted August 18, 2023 Author Share Posted August 18, 2023 So we did inspect the block code yesterday. Below is what we found after cleaning. When you magnify the photo it would appear some very faint numbers or letters are possibly there. Hopefully next month we will be ready for the new exhaust system to be installed. I will then check the transmission code when it is on the lift. Still chasing down some electrical issues. I have a thread open on the electrical forum and will post there. Again thanks for all of the info!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420ponies Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) I'd like to see the numbers on the back of the block, just under the brake booster. Also next to the oil filter you'll see some numbers as to the year of the b!ock. I don't see anything as to the picture you have of the stamping pad. Looks to me it's been decked for compression / square up bores. Edited August 18, 2023 by 420ponies Added content Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420ponies Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 (edited) So.....no update on this BBC -4spd? I was really looking forward to see what it shows. the stamping on the block ,can't really see what it reads. Edited September 23, 2023 by 420ponies spelling 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Richey Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 Definitely looks decked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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