vince Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 So here’s the deal , When the cars sits for a week or so it takes a while(3 or 4 cranks while pumping on the gas)for it to start, I’m guessing the fuel line is empty and the mechanical pump take a few cranks to get fuel to the carb.this might be common but I'm not sure. Once started everything is alright and it runs fine, the problem is when I shut it down and let it sit for 30-40 min and try to restart, that’s when the it seems to drag when starting almost like it is struggling to turn over. If I stay on the key for 10 seconds or so it eventually fires up. So here is the open question is this a timing issue? vacuum issue? or fuel issue? Any ideas to where I start? Stock 350/350 Edelbrock intake and 620 ABF carb, HEI dis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 it might be a starter/battery/electrical issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 The Battery is 6 months old, I guess I could check the connections on the starter, however it cranks strong when it's cold and drags when its warm/hot, solenoid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 no, the solenoid is just a switch, more like the starter, works OK cold but not when hot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostnFound Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Also make sure your battery connections are clean as a whistle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 57 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 When you say it struggles to turn over, does it seem like it is tight on compression? It may be ignition timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Possibility 2 separate issues. Mine has the first issue you have. I always thought it may be acarb float issue allowing the gas to drain from the bowl. Like already posted, the warm starting issue coild be a bad starter or timing as Mike and Sam mentioned. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sheean Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 You can borrow a fuel pressure gauge from O'Riely's or Auto Zone and check your fuel pump, mine did that when I first purchased it, it sat for a long while, I thought it was the fuel pump, I rebuilt the carb and it is fine now. Monte sat for almost three months this winter while I was waiting for a part and it took a few turns to get the fuel back up, but I think that is normal on mechanical pumps. If it hard cranks when hot, I'm not up on that, I have seen in the past on a friends GTO overheated wires, caused by Header clearance issues caused the engine to crank slowly. That's all I got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmarinac Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 The problems may be related. You may have fuel draining out of the bowl and into the engine. That would give you the long crank after sitting a while and the hard start after sitting short times. When it starts hard ( hot) is it cranking slow ? Or just not wanting to fire. When it finally starts does it blow black smoke ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72-CLASSIC_RIDE Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I had a similar problem. Started fine when cold but after driving for a spell, when ignition turned off (example refueling), it seemed like battery was weak and starter was dragging. After several cranks would fire up. I discovered the starter ended up being the problem. The starter got hot from engine and that heat was all that was needed to affect starter performance. It could have been the brushes or maybe the armature or both. I tried cleaning/lubricating internals up but it made no difference. I ended up purchasing a rebuilt OEM Big Block starter, added a heat shield just for added measure and have never looked back. Your issue sounds just like mine was and my guess changing out the starter is going to fix it. If your starter cranks fine when cold and fuel starts car normally when cold, I'm going with the heat causing starter to drag. JMO Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 The battery connections are good the battery is 6mo old. Mike It doesn't feel like it's tight on compression, it just seems to drag or crank real slow. When it does start there is no noticeable smoke from the exhaust. Doug, it sounds like I'm having the same issue you had. I'll start by adding a heat shield to the starter since the headers are only inches away, if it continues to drag or crank real slow I'll change the starter. As for the fuel bowl I'll have to do some homework, I'm comfortable taking the carb off and on but not so taking it apart. in addition I'll check the timing. lastly I'll check the fuel pressure. Thanks for the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsterdam84 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Sounds like heat soak. Stock starter? Might be on its way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 57 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 How old is the starter? Take the back cover off and check the brushes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 honestly I don't know how old the starter is, back in 03 when I got the car i tried to start it but the starter in place was bad (the Bendix didn't move) a friend gave me the current one and I've been running it ever scene. I guess it's time to change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leghome Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I went with an aftermarket hi-torque starter. It is not near the headers and has plenty of breathing room. I used to build new and rebuild starters for good ole GM so got very good at it. The old aftermarket starter that was on the car when I bought had a noise like the bendix was not engaging the flex plate. Checked all gears and they were good so started to take that aftermarket apart and could not get it apart. When I went to reassemble it I could not do that either so that is the reason for the aftermarket replacement of the aftermarket starter. No problems with it starting now and I hope(knock on wood) that continues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallaby Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Q-jet carbs are renowned for going dry after sitting for a spell. You will find that even when the cars were new, there was a different starting procedure when the engine was cold VS when it was warm. I don't consider this a problem... the extra cranking when cold makes sure you have oil pressure before it starts. The slow cranking when warm sounds like "heat soak" as mentioned above. When electrical parts get hot they expand, and the current has a much harder time getting through to get the job done. Make sure all your connections are clean, and your cables are in good shape. Those clamp-on battery terminals don't work well. Solder them or get some real pre-terminated cables in #1 or zero gauge. That makes sure your starter gets all it can. If it still seems sluggish, the starter itself is suspect. The starter requires a good ground to the block for a ground, and the current has to flow through the starter brushes first. Clean any paint off of the starter mounting pad of the engine block...otherwise all the current has to travel through the starter bolts. Make sure you have a good cable on the ground side of the battery hooked to a clean spot on the engine block. An extra cable from the engine to the frame of the car is also a good idea... sometimes the alternator has trouble sending current through the rubber motor mounts. I have a braided ground cable mounted under one of my fuel pump bolts running to a nearby unpainted hole in my frame. After all that, you should get some improvement. Your starter should work better, and your headlights be brighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Larry, now that you mentioned it I remember a few times in the last month where the starter made a loud screeching sound. I think the starter is getting ready to go. Mark, I'll take all that good information into consideration when I change out the starter Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Well I did some checking this weekend and found the starter with dirty connections, worn out teeth, I’ll defiantly be changing it out real soon. I checked the timing, vacuum lines, Battery cables and battery connections everything checked out good. All I have to do is pull the carburetor and check the bowls. I did spray carb cleaner hoping I would see a difference but I was just wishful thinking. Anyway does anyone have advice on a new starter High Torque? Rebuild? Refurbish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCfan Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Hey, Vince, I had the identical starter symptoms on my 402. I thought I needed a new High Torque starter so I bought a Powermaster that was supposed to fit my engine. Turned out it was a straight bolt pattern and I needed a staggered pattern. The good news was that the process of removing the original starter, thoroughly cleaning all of the contact surfaces and installing new factory-crimped cables fixed all the problems I had with the original starter. These are all things that Mark has already suggested you do but it sounds like your original starter may also be damaged. I don't know if your 350 uses a straight bolt pattern or not. If it does and you are interested, I can make you a real good deal on this Powermaster XS Torque starter that I couldn't use. It's a 9502 model for a 153 tooth Chevy; straight bolt pattern. Here's a link to the same item at JEGS. I also purchased a new bolt and shim mounting kit for it. Just let me know if it will fit and if you're interested. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58impala Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 New fuel evaporates after seating a few days, probably why you have to pump it a few times after seating for some time. My 83' Chevy big block had the same starting problem after warmed up, battery was only 3 months old, rebuilt starter with a welded armature, installed heatshield, one day I ran jumper cables from auxilary battery and it fired right up. Replaced main battery and never had the problem again. They said the battery shorted cell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 it's normal to have to pump a carburated engine a few times to get it to start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 I'll still take a look at the carb bowl, And I'll, have the battery tested as well. Dennis: I'll keep that starter in mind I'll let you know after i check the bold pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 it's normal to have to pump a carburated engine a few times to get it to start Sam is right on this, I think the normal thinking on this, when starting a cold engine youwould pump the gas pedal 2 to 3 times. Another thing this accomplishes is to set the choke to a closed position. I can't rember if the owners manual indicated this or not but it might Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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