400 Small Block Build. 500+ HP

[Mike 57]

Hate to see that happen Winston. Dave and I talked after he lost his shaft. Torque kills the ends RPM breaks them in the middle. I run a Denny's nitrous ready, not a cheap date but comes with a lifetime guarantee.

[Winston Wolf]

Yeah, I'm sure the 4.56's keep that thing spinning pretty fast... Thanks for the lesson after the fact Davey...

 

I now need to decide if I just find a new case and put my trans guts in it or stick my th350 in for the time being. You guys think it wrecks anything other than the case when this happens?

 

I'll have to get stuff on order this week. Do I really need the larger u-joints? The car will never be faster than 11.50's.

 

I am planning to do the axles right away. Any recommendations there?

[72MC]

Axles? Take a look at Yukon. I know alot of people will recommend Mosier and Strange but Yukons, IMHO, are just as good or better regardless of which spline count you go for. Randy's Ring and Pinion sells them. Again, good luck with your decision making process. - Dave

[Mike 57]

I think your trans internals would be okay would check runout on the output shaft and pinion shafts to make sure they are good.

 

[Winston Wolf]

Well, After taking a 6 week hiatas from the broken down car to enjoy my Harleys and do my annual Sturgis trip, I'm back at it....

 

Got the trans ripped out. It was acutally worse than I thought. The bellhousing was completely broken from the back of the transmission. No way to JB Weld this one.... Drive shaft will be on order next week, and should have it back up and running by the end of the month.

 

Here are some pics.

 

 

 

 

[Ian]

Ouch! is that a TH400 or a 700R4?

[Winston Wolf]

200-4R

[Winston Wolf]

Got the trans parts swapped into the new case. I had, a few times, felt like the converter was slipping at the top end of 2nd gear, so I had the guy take a good look at all the clutches when he did the swap. Took him 2 hours and cost me $350 with the the case and parts. Very fair I thought for same day service.

 

The 2nd gear band was indeed starting to go, so I had it replaced. The thrust bearing had also started to come apart and would have failed in short order (new one also). Not sure what would cause that to fail, but if the case hadn't cracked, the builder thought it would have taken the whole trans out soon anyways. This was a Bowtie Overdrives Stage 3 200-4r incase anyone cares. I did this swap last year and probably had a couple thousand miles on it for what it's worth.

 

Changed out the rear pinion yoke, the threads were a bit damaged on the end from the wreck, so I needed to grind down the nicked threads to get the new nut on. I did switch to 1350 ujoints and am going to order the driveshaft from Dynotech tomorrow. They were 150 bucks cheaper than Inland and Denny's for the same thing, plus they are 2 states away vs 10. Axles are on order too....

 

[Mike 57]

Sounds like a good start on getting it back together.

[Andy's Auto]

I watched you work last night. The way you handled the "Marvin" situation was a sight to see.

 

Based on your current ET, a JW Ultrabell is in order. Not easy to cut a trans in half with a Sawzall, but 200s were never designed to do what they handle.

 

Andy

[Winston Wolf]

Car is back on the road. New trans in in and working like it should. I am getting a resonance that I believe is through the crunched up exhaust, so I'll be taking it in to have new mufflers put on and everything straightened up. The Dynotech driveshaft arrived as promised and the 1350 joints should be a plus. I went with a 2" x 1/2" screw in studs that work perfect. Here are a few pics of the new stuff.

 

 

 

 

 

I also ended up changing out the front studs to make them legal. I did a seperate thread to show how it's done.

 

Front Stud Swap

[Winston Wolf]

Brought the car in to get the exhaust fixed up. It was tweeked a bit more than I had thought, the passenger side was pretty bent. Took longer so naturally cost more than I had hoped.

 

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...this driveshaft breaking ended up costing me just over $2000 and probably 30 hours of my time. That does include the cost of beefing up the axles and studs, which should have been done anyways.

 

It will be off the the track next weekend to keep tuning sans any issues this weekend. I still haven't changed a jet on the carb....

 

Here's the exhaust work from today.

 

 

 

 

[Winston Wolf]

Decent day today at Rock Falls Raceway in WI.

 

Working a few trans bugs out yet. It still wanted to short shift out of first. I did mangage to fix the problem by way overfilling the oil level. The g-forces are great enough, pushing all the oil to the back of the transmisison that the filter must be sucking air at the top of first. When the valve body see's the reduction in pressure, it forces an upshift. I have a filter setup that is suppose to prevent this, but I will need to make a custom pickup/filter this winter.

 

Had 2 runs where I lost traction right off the line. Felt like the trans broke, scared the death out of me. Looks like I found the limit of the 9x28x15 slicks and will need to get wider ones.

 

To sum it up, best time of the day was a 11.793 @ 117.21 mph. Looks like the engine is making enough HP now, I just need to get the power to the pavement. Keep in mind I am running original stock springs all around, with stock front shocks, air shocks in the back, and 3" rear coil spacers.

 

I put together a video of some of todays runs to show how things went.

 

 

 

Also, here you can see a log from one of the runs. From this you can tell alot. I am holding the foot brake at 1370 RPMs before I take off. Where the sharp rise line breaks is when the converter tightens up, around 3700. Then the 1-2 shift at 6400, the 2-3 shift at 6420, the lock up clutch engaging at 5520, and coming through the traps at about 6600 RPM's. You can see I have the fuel (AFR) dialed in at the mid 12:1 range, right where it should be.

 

 

I use these to help me dial the car in. Easy to monitor jetting and shift RPM's. It allows you to go back and look at anything strange that happen's too. I knew for sure I was having the early shifting trans problem by checking my logs. A nice tool.

[CrazyDavey]

Motor sounds great Justin, I love the way those Prosystems carbs leave without any protest. Before you go spend money on new slicks put some work into the suspension. From what you describe you have a lot on the table in that area, at least 1 to 2 tenths. You can make some good mods without breaking the bank and take advantage of what you already have.

 

I forgot, what converter are you running? The next thing I would focus on is shift recovery, keep that motor in it's happy place....congrats...that's a fast Monte....Dave

[502ci]

With that mph you have a couple tenths waiting to be found...I'm with Dave, work on the suspension first.

[Sam (Bones)]

 

suspension, suspension, suspension, your rear suspension really needs some tuning you way you break loose right after launching

[Winston Wolf]

CD, It's a 3500 Precision Industries Vigilante Stall. Precision Converters

 

Not sure what you mean by "shift recovery" I'm not dropping below 5000 rpm the entire run after take off.

 

I'd be happy to hear any suspension suggestions, it's next on my list.

 

 

[dbreese]

Wow Justin ya got that thing flying. The engine sounds awesome and never seems to run out of breath. You have a great combo and your mph shows you have great potential to lower the et.

 

Before I tore my car down for upgrades this was my setup. I had removed the front sway bar and installed some lakewood 90/10 up front and still have the stock front springs. Out back I have some qa1 single adj shocks that I would set at 6 clicks from soft along with some air bags. 17 psi on the passenger side and 0 psi on the drivers. My stock l/c arms are boxed and I have edlebrock adj uppers. I also had UMI l/c arm relocation brackets which helped move the instant center back. I know it seems that it is kinda seems like a hodgepodge of suspension parts but it worked well with my mild 385. It seemed to transfer the weight well to the back tires and my 60's were very consistent(low 1.70's) and the car always left straight as an arrow. I could also catch a little air under the left front.

 

Get the front end loosend up and the weight over the back tires on the initial hit and keep the weight transferred back there long enough so the tires don't unload and cause you to spin. It is a fine balancing act for sure that does take time and experimentation to get it right. BTW your car is bad to the bone. Congrats on your new best!!!!

 

David

[CrazyDavey]

CD, It's a 3500 Precision Industries Vigilante Stall. Precision Converters

 

Not sure what you mean by "shift recovery" I'm not dropping below 5000 rpm the entire run after take off.

 

I'd be happy to hear any suspension suggestions, it's next on my list.

 

 

Justin, by shift recovery I mean how many RPM's is it dropping between shifts. If you listen to your run you can hear the shift pull the motor down. If you're crossing the line at 6600 (and it sounds great btw) then your peak power should be at 6000+. Does your data logger tell you how many RPM's it's dropping? My ear tells me it's more than about 4/500 which is what you need to keep the motor up at it's peak power during the run. Recovery can be influenced by the converter, a converter that is to tight will pull the motor down. That motor really needs something in the 4500/5000 range to take full advantage of your power curve.

 

I know people get spooked about high stall converters on the street but you can get a custom one that is spec'd specifically for your set up that can have decent street manners (I use Coan). Have you ever tested the flash? It sounds like it's flashing but it's always good to check it out.

 

I know you are well educated on these things Justin and I'm not likely telling you something you don't already know. I'm just relating things I have learned from racing full time over the last year and a half so just take for what it's worth to you.

 

Suspension, man I have learned a lot, I have made just as many gains from suspension as I have from drivetrain. Dave has already pointed out some good stuff. Your suspension is where your 60 lies, get a tenth off that and you'll be talking to folks about a rollbar. It would be good if we could see a picture of your car on level ground (race ready). Not sure why you have 3" spacers in the back but that's usually not idea (unless your ride height is really that low). Air shocks will seriously restrict the 4 link's ability to handle weight transer and need to go. As with Dave I run the QA1 single adjustables which allow you to make easy quick changes to compression and rebound for different track conditions (softer for a greasy track, stiffer for a track that's hooking). Installing a Anti Roll Bar (I use a BMR) helps equalize the weight transfer to both tires and in my case eliminated the need for any airbags. I also run the boxed lowers and Eddy adj uppers like Dave (also helps with setting proper pinion angle). When running take off the front sway bar (it's 6 bolts) to help loosen up the transfer. What really helped mine was loosening up the A arms. On the lowers back the nuts off until they put no pressure on the bushings, then double nut them with Loctite. On the uppers grind off those little serrated thingys on the A arm crossbolt to get rid of the bushing resistance. Then use a bolt on the ends that just bottoms out as it touches the outer washer (you should be able to move the washer when the bolt is tight) and Loctite it as well. This is the change that finally got me out of the 150 60's and into the 140's. I also use a straight 90/10 shock in the front (Calvert).

 

Just things I have done Justin, maybe some of it can help you out...Dave

[Winston Wolf]

[quote=Reds72WMonte

 

Justin, by shift recovery I mean how many RPM's is it dropping between shifts. If you listen to your run you can hear the shift pull the motor down. If you're crossing the line at 6600 (and it sounds great btw) then your peak power should be at 6000+. Does your data logger tell you how many RPM's it's dropping? My ear tells me it's more than about 4/500 which is what you need to keep the motor up at it's peak power during the run. Recovery can be influenced by the converter, a converter that is to tight will pull the motor down. That motor really needs something in the 4500/5000 range to take full advantage of your power curve.

 

Here is my shift log. RPM's is the top black line. You can see the exact RPM drops 1-2 drops 950 rpms, 2-3 drops 1000 rpms, and the 3rd to locked 3rd drops it 340 rpms. You can also see that it looks to flash right at 3500 off the line. I may get my converter retalled up a bit, maybe 3800 or 3900, but if I do it won't be until winter. Not sure if it will be worth the trouble, don't have much room to go any faster.

 

 

I know people get spooked about high stall converters on the street but you can get a custom one that is spec'd specifically for your set up that can have decent street manners (I use Coan). Have you ever tested the flash? It sounds like it's flashing but it's always good to check it out.

 

Remember, I am using an overdrive trans with a lockup converter, so I can get by with higher stall than most....

 

 

I might try and do a few things to the suspension you guys are talking about before the last race day end of this month, but I don't want to spend any more money this season.

 

One thing I did was to seperate the left and right air shocks. I tried putting 30 psi in the right side only, hoping it would act like an airbag. I don't think it's the same... I will get a video up tonight of the launch from outside the car on one of the 11.7 runs so you guys can see how is takes off.

[CrazyDavey]

sorry Justin, my eyes are shot so I can't read those charts..

 

I think your shift points and crossing the line number match up just about perfect. Your shift recovery would be better at about 500 but it is what it is right now.

 

I take it from your "not much room" comment you don't want a rollbar so a little suspension work should get you right down to that point....nice job Justin...

[Winston Wolf]

 

I take it from your "not much room" comment you don't want a rollbar so a little suspension work should get you right down to that point....nice job Justin...

 

That would be correct. If I ever get the desire to go faster than 11.50, I'll be getting an early 60's Chevy II or one of these... My Monte Carlo is a driver.

 

 

 

[502ci]

NICE!!!

 

[Winston Wolf]

Here is a video of one of the 11.7 runs. You can see the car has a jacked up stance. The traction bars are some I made way back in highschool.

 

It looks like it bounces quite a bit on the launch. I'm sure what is happening is if it bounces good enough I lose the traction on the up stroke.

 

[7tonemonte]

Please say you beat out the ricer in the other lane

I gotta say, your posts are nice to look through, nicely documented pics, and pretty informitive!

The car looks great, and seems to be responding well to your mods!

Thanks for taking the time to post all the pics and document the details