1970 SS COPO

[Murphy]

I just spoke with a gentleman from the LA area, who is in the restoration business, who states that a LA Chevrolet dealer (back in the day) ordered 4 70 SS cars with 4peeds, and they had the COPO designation on the paperwork. He stated that all 4 cars were produced in the Van Nuys plant. He seemed very knowledgeable on the subject as he has restored many cars & even has sold a few to Reggie Jackson. Apparently, Reggie owned one of the 4 for a period of time. Craig also stated, when I voiced my disbelief, that one of these COPO's frequents several of the shows in LA area with the documentation.

 

I am contacting him again in the near future and will definately see if I can gain any more insight on these issue. I'm wondering, with all the expertise on this site, is there a way to get stats from GM on the COPO production numbers?

[ssmonte70]

To my knowledge just the build sheet will prove or disprove it. The rumors have always been there but until the car is produced by its owner, looked by several members of the club who have a greater knowledge than me, and can compare the build sheet it won't exist.

 

I don't think there is a way to get stats from GM, from what I understand from many members on the site I think many if not all of the GM paperwork from the states were destroyed (other than the build sheet that may have come with the car). I believe Canadian cars have stats.

 

Hope someone else jumps in as I'm not 100% sure myself....Troy

[Murphy]

Was hoping is topic would generate more discussion?? I'm still pursuing more info about these cars & will update when possible........

[lastss]

My build sheet for my SS has the folling XXX Customer Order It doesn't have anything rare on it unless you count am 8 track stereo

[Canuck]

I'll believe it when I see it. Seems like every story we hear like this never has evidence to back it up. I'd love for it to be true but need to see proof.

[Canuck]

My build sheet for my SS has the folling XXX Customer Order It doesn't have anything rare on it unless you count am 8 track stereo

 

Nothing special about XXX Customer order. Just means the customer ordered the options they wanted on their car. My 70 has that on the build sheet too and there's nothing really unique about it.

[LostnFound]

Hmmm....I know what XXX means

[Sam (Bones)]

I'll believe it when I see it. Seems like every story we hear like this never has evidence to back it up. I'd love for it to be true but need to see proof.

 

[Hisalone]

One hard copy source I have seems to support what has been brought up here. When mentioning production numbers of the 1970 SS models, it vaguely reads and I quote "A few four-speed Monte Carlo SS-454s were made, too."

 

As well, this source mentions that 10 1970 Monte Carlo SS-454s were "snuck" out of the factory with the LS6 motor. Take it for what it's worth.

[Canuck]

One hard copy source I have seems to support what has been brought up here. When mentioning production numbers of the 1970 SS models, it vaguely reads and I quote "A few four-speed Monte Carlo SS-454s were made, too."

 

As well, this source mentions that 10 1970 Monte Carlo SS-454s were "snuck" out of the factory with the LS6 motor. Take it for what it's worth.

 

Some magazines have stated these rumours and this leads to people beleiving it is true and other books/magazines follow suit. I have a Super Chevy mag that says there were some LS6 4-speeds but again I don't think the magazine verified the source. I think these rumours spread so well because people want it to be true.

 

I had a guy recently tell me he has one of 4 71 SS Montes that left the factory with the SS logo on the grill and not the Monte shield. He was not willing to accept that this may not be true as he does not want to let go of the legend.

[gprimm]

GM does have records of what engines were put in which models. I won't type everything again, but Chevrolet gave Fran Preve, an employee of the Tonawanda, NY engine plant, and Chevy weekend drag racer, the records on production. He knew of cars that were made, but not yet known and he would tell no one. The 72 El Monte (Baltimore plant) and at the NCOA Convention in Nashville around 1992 (I have pics and video) and the Z-16 engine 1965 Malibu 300 DeLuxe which we found later in Nashville, TN (with the drivetrain changed to Oldsmobile, but we know where the original IX code Z-16 engine is.

 

When I asked Fran personally if any 4-speed, SS or 4-spd. LS-6 Montes were made he gave a definite "no". The frustrating thing is that Chevrolet does have the info, in my opinion, they just don't want to open a can or worms. Fran knew Reggie Jackson as Fran was the man with the info. He denied any being made. That's what I base my opinion on. We have heard for soooo long of them but none found. There was a guy here a few years ago that said he had the build sheet, he sent it to me and it happened to be sold in Athens, IL,where my family is from. When I told him my Uncles knew the salesman, he publicly recanted and said it was probably not real.

 

As a Monte lover, I'd love to see one, I really would. It would even us with the Chevelle crowd, which I love having owned one. We Monte owners just don't get the respect.

 

By the way, the elusive 201st Z-16 I believe is the 300 with the Z-16 drivetrain. The Z-16 body that that engine should have been in was delivered to the Chevy dealership in Normal IL as Gary Swearingen of Normal, IL. worked at the dealership and ordered it to race. When delivered they popped the hood and it was a small block. He bought a L79 Nova and the Z-16 body was sold. Small world Gary was in the Northern Illinois Chevelle Club, of which I was President for 20 years until a few years ago.

[Hisalone]

Originally Posted By: Hisalone

One hard copy source I have seems to support what has been brought up here. When mentioning production numbers of the 1970 SS models, it vaguely reads and I quote "A few four-speed Monte Carlo SS-454s were made, too."

 

As well, this source mentions that 10 1970 Monte Carlo SS-454s were "snuck" out of the factory with the LS6 motor. Take it for what it's worth.

 

Some magazines have stated these rumours and this leads to people beleiving it is true and other books/magazines follow suit. I have a Super Chevy mag that says there were some LS6 4-speeds but again I don't think the magazine verified the source. I think these rumours spread so well because people want it to be true.

 

I had a guy recently tell me he has one of 4 71 SS Montes that left the factory with the SS logo on the grill and not the Monte shield. He was not willing to accept that this may not be true as he does not want to let go of the legend.

 

I agree that I'll believe it when I see a real one with the documents to prove it. I looked for sources, but nothing was cited. My guess is that each source somehow cites another source and it gets very circular only to lead back to one rather shaky vision. I've seen it in other research I've done.

 

That guy probably didn't know what he had. It's amazing how many people in this hobby have very little knowledge of their respective vehicles much less general automotive knowledge to begin with. I'm no Monte Carlo guru or automotive aficionado by any stretch, but I know a couple things.

[Murphy]

Great info......I found this info on a Chevy historical site also, I'm not sure that the last sentence is correct?

 

There has been no documented case of a 1971 Monte Carlo SS car with the 425 hp (317 kW) LS-6 version of the 454, with solid valve lifters and a longer-duration camshaft, previously found in the 1970 Chevelle SS 454 (where it was rated at however, they did come with an LS5 454. The Turbo Hydramatic officially remained the only transmission for the SS, but a heavy-duty clutch option on the order form suggests that it may have been possible to special-order a 454 LS-6 with a four-speed manual transmission (the four-speed wasn't listed officially as an "SS" option but was available as an RPO in regular Monte Carlos with the 350 and 400 engines). The exact number of such combinations, if any, is unknown since they were not officially listed as factory options but possibly assembled through Chevrolet's "Central Office Production Order" (COPO) process that had previously made possible model/engine combinations not officially available. However, there has never been a documented case of such a combination. Chevrolet records indicate that the factory only installed the LS-6 installations in Corvettes that year.

[427monte]

"The 72 El Monte (Baltimore plant) and at the NCOA Convention in Nashville around 1992 (I have pics and video) and the Z-16 engine 1965 Malibu 300 DeLuxe which we found later in Nashville, TN (with the drivetrain changed to Oldsmobile, but we know where the original IX code Z-16 engine is."

 

gprimm........what are you saying with this sentence??

[overdrive]

I think he was referring to the information that he found and posted just above your post.

 

"Chevrolet records indicate that the factory only installed the LS-6 installations in Corvettes that year."

 

That sentence should include the Chevelle.

 

Dan

[montefrazer]

In 1970 yes but that quote is talking about 1971 so no Ls6 for Chevelle.

 

 

"heavy-duty clutch option on the order form suggests that it may have been possible'

 

Using this type of logic, we should all be looking for a factory 1970 convertible since the use and care instructions are in the owners manual.

[Jared Richey]

George, I'm still dying to see the video and pictures of the el Monte.

[RichG]

In 43 years, not ONE legitimate,, documented LS-6, 4 speed 454, or convertible has EVER surfaced. If one or four or ten existed, it would have surfaced by now. Whoever got it new would have known how unique it was and would have at least passed on the story when it changed hands. There are tons of "my brothers barbers next door neighbor had one" or "I remember sitting in one on the showroom floor" story's but not ONE real, documented car yet. 43 years and still waiting....... Just my opinion, I could be wrong...

[Murphy]

I appreciate all the input here and please understand, I am a complete skeptic myself. This forum has helped to enlighten me on the historical info that's out there because I'm into facts......."Just the facts mam" (Dragnet) Thanks for all the comments!

[Aceinsp]

If my source is still available I will ask about the 4speed Montes. He has been able to provide more info than most as he had inside knowledge from GM on a lot of vehicles. He did verify for me that when the 1970 SS came out it was available with the 390HP 454. I can also verify that it existed as I almost bought the one on the dealers show room floor.

 

That engine options did not last more than 6 weeks. Later RJD

[Canuck]

In 43 years, not ONE legitimate,, documented LS-6, 4 speed 454, or convertible has EVER surfaced. If one or four or ten existed, it would have surfaced by now. Whoever got it new would have known how unique it was and would have at least passed on the story when it changed hands. There are tons of "my brothers barbers next door neighbor had one" or "I remember sitting in one on the showroom floor" story's but not ONE real, documented car yet. 43 years and still waiting....... Just my opinion, I could be wrong...

 

I'm with you Rich. I'd love to see that a real LS6, 454 4-speed or convertible was built in the factory but it seems doubtful to me for the reasons you stated.

[Mom's Car]

My original 1970 Monte back in the day had a 454/390. That is what the engine letters designated. I never did understand why that was. I think the corvette was rated at the same hp for the oval port motor that year. Was it just rated at a different rpm?

 

If my source is still available I will ask about the 4speed Montes. He has been able to provide more info than most as he had inside knowledge from GM on a lot of vehicles. He did verify for me that when the 1970 SS came out it was available with the 390HP 454. I can also verify that it existed as I almost bought the one on the dealers show room floor.

 

That engine options did not last more than 6 weeks. Later RJD

[Sam (Bones)]

the 1970 454 LS5 360 and 390 hp engines are the same exact engine, some 390's made there way into the full size line, most went to corvettes, it wouldn't surprise me to see a few in monte's

 

as said, they rated them at different RPM's but were actually the exact same except for intakes and exhaust manifols, corvette's had a low rise intake for hood clearance and different exhaust manifolds for factory sidepipes

[CrazyDavey]

I just talked to Reggie..he said it never happened....

 

Sam is correct about the 390 versions, mostly attributed to the better exhaust but pretty much all the ratings at that time were manipulated by @ RPM numbers. You can rate a motor at say 5000 RPM and pick up 100 HP by taking it to 6000....perfect example was when Ford came out with the CobraJet in '68....I bought a Fairlane 500 hardtop with that motor when they first came out and it was rated at 335 @ 5400....it would pull hard way past that, I think I was shifting mine around 6200. Actual HP was well over 400...it was about insurance back then...

[LS5]

I remember talking to Dan Carr and one of the fella's at the GM Oshawa plant and it was said that when they ran out of the standard LS5's for the Chevelle in 1970 that they had about a dozen 390 horse engines left over from the corvette line up and with None of those left they stuffed them into chevelle's. who knows maybe a couple of 70 Canadian built Monte's as well ? As they had the same LS5 as the chevelle.

Darren.