sredmyer Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Hello all, I am new here and have joined because I would like to acquire a 1970 Monte like the one I had 35+ years ago while in HS. I always loved the car I had in HS and have always wanted to buy one like it and do the things I wanted to do when I was a kid but didn't have the money. Well, I've grown up a bit and now I would rather buy a project car that can be an investment. This means I have to select the correct car...this is where I hope the folks here can help me out. I really don't know much about classic muscle cars but have heard things like "numbers matching", "all original", etc. I have an idea what those terms mean but I am not exactly sure. Can someone help me understand the things to look for when trying to buy a project car so when I am done I have a car that will be more likely to appreciate rather than depreciate. Thanks, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stangeba Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Welcome Steve! I also loved my car in High School (the last month when I got it) and I still do! Purchase what you like. IMO, you probably will spend more repairing one then to purchase one already finished. There will be a snowball effect, we all have had them. Some cars will bring more money than others. A 71 SS with the original engine, trans and frame (= serial numbers matching) will bring more than a non SS Big Block more than small block Ect Ect..... Purchase what you like. Good luck, Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72-CLASSIC_RIDE Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Having the Original Build Sheet would be the #1 question for me. How to classify that car against it's peers for Rarity, Options, Big Block Motor, confirmed actual mileage, other types of Documentation. The 70 / 71 454SS and Manual 4 speed's (same years) along with the 72 Custom were the only upgrades from the Base Model. The 70 / 71 4 speed cars came with a standard 350 CI or optional 402 CI. If your looking for that (like)car you owned when younger, that would narrow down your search. To help you decide, track 1st Gen Monty's that have sold, compare conditions, amenities, options to get you a price & condition point that is acceptable to you. But the number 1 suggestion would be to read as much as you can on this Board, articles and other venues to really round out your knowledge base. There is statistical info on the Home Page that has a wealth of info on our cars. And Bruce is right! Unless you purposely want a project to play with, finding one that fits your vision that is already in very good condition will be cheaper than trying to bring a much lesser version up to that level. These cars are growing in value but as yet, don't carry the price tag of a Chevelle, Cuda and the like. Margins are a lot slimmer when it comes to the Monte and those upgrade costs start becoming more noticeable. Welcome aboard and the best in your search. There are many out there to choose from from Top to Bottom........... Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Numbers Matching= It has the original (FACTORY) engine, transmission etc....never replaced All Original= This can mean either Never restored with all factory parts or restored to factory original NOS= speaks of original unused parts. NOS can be New Old Stock or New Original Stock and it refers to parts that have never been installed on a car. Survivor= A car that has never been renewed in any way, including paint, interior, engine...... basically untouched original car That is a start on terms. Now, for our beloved Montes. -If one has a vinyl watch for rust under the vinnyl -Look in the trunk for evidence of rust of the trunk floor and up under the package -put it on a lift and check the frame and floorboards for rust and damage -Check the rear wheel wells and wheel well lips for rust damage -Check front fenders behind the tire for rust damage I am sure others chime in with items. One last item is this, it is always cheaper to buy one already restored or mostly restored than to do it all yourself rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 By the way.... sorry, I forgot to say welcome aboard the boards. We already know you have good taste in cars since: #1 You owned a Monte before #2 It was a 1970, arguably the best year of Monte Carlo #3 If it was Blue you had hit a Grand Slam 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCfan Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Welcome to the club and forums, Steve! Great to have another nostalgic first gen Monte lover on board! A '70 Monte was my first new car out of college - guess it was lucky that I couldn't afford a new car before that. I loved that car - it was classy, powerful, quiet and comfortable ... however it didn't serve so well as a family car so I let it go in '74. Decades later, after the family had grown up and left and I had the spare time and resources to have some big boy toys, another '70 Monte is what I wanted most. But I had always wanted to own a big block, 4-speed GM car (my brother-in-law had many that I had driven) so I thought those two objectives were incompatible ... not! I went to a Toys for Tots car show at Muscle Car City in December of 2009 and saw a '71 Monte with a 350 factory 4-speed and soon learned that Chevy built some big block 4-speeds as well. The first one I found got away, but I snagged the second one and I've enjoyed it ever since. Then, I also learned about the '70 and '71 SS models and decided I'd better scratch that itch. I was fortunate to find a '70 SS and it's been a blast to own also, although it has a very different personality than the 4-speed car. However, if I ever find another '70 like my first one - Autumn Gold/White Vinyl top, 402/400. etc, I would probably buy it in a heartbeat just because that was my first love. So, I hope you find whatever you are longing for. As others have attested, I can almost assure you that finding a roadworthy '70 Monte in good condition will still give you plenty of opportunity to fix/tune/upgrade for years to come and you will be miles ahead of the restoration path in both time and money. But, it's your time, your money, your choice and your enjoyment so welcome to the journey ... wherever yours leads! Keep us posted on your progress ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cny first gen 71 Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Welcome abaord, hold out for what you want. When I started out I was looking for a 70 (first year) or a 72 (the year I gradusted from high school) I ended up with a 71 base model and then made it mine, and havent looked back. I like the car and still making it more mine doing stuff to it almost every winter. Good luck which ever year you pick you will enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve70Carlo Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Hey Steve, I'm with Bruce that you should buy what you like. My 1970 Monte was my FIRST car and over 20 years later is still with me. I do agree that you will spend quite a bit less to buy one already done rather than if you started out with a project, per se. But like I said, buy what you want. Crazy Idea... do you think you could track down your old Monte? By the way, Dennis, that Gold Monte is sweet looking! Thats the color I would go back to if I ever have the cash to get it painted again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredmyer Posted October 22, 2016 Author Share Posted October 22, 2016 Wow, thanks for the welcome and all the insight. One question though, how important is the numbers matching thing to the cars investment value? There is currently a 1970 Monte on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/272338593627) that is all original (with build sheet and lots of other documentation) except the motor. The seller claims the motor is a crate engine that was replaced, under warranty, sometime around 1972. This car is identical to the one I had in HS and looks to be really complete but definitely needs work. I think this car just needs mechanical and body work to be very nice. These are things I can do (and enjoy doing) and sense the car is so complete, I wont be burning up a lot of time tracking down parts. I wonder though how much the non-original motor would that affect the investment value of the car. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Wow, thanks for the welcome and all the insight. One question though, how important is the numbers matching thing to the cars investment value? There is currently a 1970 Monte on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/272338593627) that is all original (with build sheet and lots of other documentation) except the motor. The seller claims the motor is a crate engine that was replaced, under warranty, sometime around 1972. This car is identical to the one I had in HS and looks to be really complete but definitely needs work. I think this car just needs mechanical and body work to be very nice. These are things I can do (and enjoy doing) and sense the car is so complete, I wont be burning up a lot of time tracking down parts. I wonder though how much the non-original motor would that affect the investment value of the car. Steve For a big block it is more important to the value to be numbers matching. For a small block it still helps but not a big boost in value. Warranty replacement is still better than if it had a typical engine swap. That car is loaded with a lot of great options! That in itself is very cool. It looks like the seller went out of their way not to hide anything. You will have a fair amount of rust repair but is fixable, it just may be expensive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Richey Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 71 SS or 4 speed would be a great one to get, but a 72 454 W code or 70 SS is a good choice as well. Put big $$$ in one of these, don't pile $50k in a 350 2 barrel car. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmanabba Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Something that I might add to the already excellent advise is that the term " investment " should probably be a relative term. Very few times will you get out of a car what you put in to it. But if you start with a desirable car then you might not lose much or break even when/if it comes time to sell. I try to have the attitude to just enjoy the experience of working on and owning a classic car. I will let my kids worry about selling after I am gone lol. Having said all of that I am happy that there is one more person out to preserve a First Gen Monte. I wish that they all could be saved but that is not realistic. I am not trying to be a wet blanket but I don't think any of us are here expecting to retire from the fruits of our hobby. Good luck on your search. I hope you find a original big block for pocket change. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam (Bones) Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 it is always more cost effective to buy one that has already been restored 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Richey Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 A classic car is a much better return on your money than hunting, fishing, or any other hobby or sports you can probably think of. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredmyer Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 LOL! I guess I need to better define what I mean by "investment car". That term is what I use with the other half to justify spending the money...sorta like "seriously honey, we should buy this car for $22k...it is only going to increase in value. It is a good investment." Something that I might add to the already excellent advise is that the term " investment " should probably be a relative term. Very few times will you get out of a car what you put in to it. But if you start with a desirable car then you might not lose much or break even when/if it comes time to sell. I try to have the attitude to just enjoy the experience of working on and owning a classic car. I will let my kids worry about selling after I am gone lol. Having said all of that I am happy that there is one more person out to preserve a First Gen Monte. I wish that they all could be saved but that is not realistic. I am not trying to be a wet blanket but I don't think any of us are here expecting to retire from the fruits of our hobby. Good luck on your search. I hope you find a original big block for pocket change. David A classic car is a much better return on your money than hunting, fishing, or any other hobby or sports you can probably think of. LOL I guess I need to better define what I mean by "investment car". That term is what I use with the other half to justify spending the money...like "seriously honey, we should buy this car for $22k...it is only going to increase in value...it is a good investment." For my own purposes I am looking for a car that will provide me with a weekend hobby and pride of ownership (a good investment), price is not really a concern (within reason) if the other half is on board I really appreciate all of the advise here and have decided that I am going to hold out for a finished (or near finished) 1970 black on silver big block car. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejh22 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Here you go.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Monte-Carlo-/162244742252?forcerrptr=true&hash=item25c68a4c6c:g:UwEAAOSwB09YCjL2&item=162244742252 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 A classic car is a much better return on your money than hunting, fishing, or any other hobby or sports you can probably think of. I feel this is only SOMETIMEs true. If you buy it already restored maybe yes but for the average person,what it costs to to restore one yourself, I feel it is almost impossible to even break even. rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostnFound Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Welcome Steve. Your American dollar will get you much more up here in Canada so I will keep a look out up here for you. So you are looking for a big block car in silver with black interior? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredmyer Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 Welcome Steve. Your American dollar will get you much more up here in Canada so I will keep a look out up here for you. So you are looking for a big block car in silver with black interior? Ideally yes...that is what I had in HS...1970, silver with black vinyl top, big block, bucket seats and console shifter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallaby Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I also have fond memories of how things were in high school. I had a Monte back then and it was somehow affordable. Things are different now... it seems to cost a fortune to do anything, and perhaps my standards have risen as well. My advice is to hold out for the one YOU want, and get one as nice as you can afford. These cars aren't new anymore, the newest 1st gen is going to be 45 years old. Trust me, there will still be opportunity for "hands on" type of repair and maintenance, but try to steer clear of major repairs. I started with a very clean rust-free example, and sunk 10k on paint, then 10k on an engine right away. Never mind the interior, suspension, transmission, rear end, etc. My advice is to NOT add up your receipts, and love the car enough to not worry about it's resale value. For me, the fun is in the journey. I enjoy the wrenching and take pride in knowing I did it myself. If you want a car for the fun of driving it, start with a car that does that well to begin with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredmyer Posted December 3, 2016 Author Share Posted December 3, 2016 Thanks for all the advice, I ended up not buying that car as I decided (based on comments here) that it would be more work than I wanted to take on. I will keep looking for the car I want. On that note, it seems that the bucket seat with console is not that easy to find (especially when I have other options that also matter). Can anyone give me an idea of how hard (and how expensive) it would be to replace the bench seat and column shifter with the buckets and console? Thanks, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredmyer Posted December 6, 2016 Author Share Posted December 6, 2016 Ok guys. I think I found THE car and would love to hear what you all think of this car. https://classiccars.com/listings/view/692127/1970-chevrolet-monte-carlo-for-sale-in-saint-louis-missouri-63128 Oh yeah and now that I understand what "numbers matching" means, how important is that to the value of the car? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72-CLASSIC_RIDE Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 For the purist, numbers matching is most important. Having the Build Sheet from the car would confirm it. Is it possible to verify road miles? What are the actual miles on motor? Has the motor been rebuilt? How tight is the suspension? Any repairs visible on sheet metal? Looking for typical water leaks/damage around Front/Rear Window(s), Lower Fender & Quarter Panel bubbling around Fender Wells, Inside Trunk Floor and inside Package Tray area for any water damage or stains. You likely have a pretty good idea on what the major concerns would be and those questions need answered............ The more Documented history seller can provide on vehicle, the better............... Like the color combo and appears to be a clean car. Assuming there are no serious issues with the car, I think the price is ball park if numbers can be verified. It has a couple options & after market performance gauges and that's a plus. Without any other significant details and just from the photo's, it looks pretty good. I would still like to have it inspected before making any offer & unless afraid of another buyer, I would negotiate the price down................... Doug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Peters Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 I agree with Doug. The pictures look pretty good. To me the trunk looks funny. The trunk has been repainted and if I was asking that kind of money I would have spent a few bucks and put in a new trunk mat. I would ask for pictures of the trunk with the mat removed and pictures of the undercarriage. It may be worth a road trip to view it in person. I also agree with Doug that you should bargain the price down some. rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredmyer Posted December 7, 2016 Author Share Posted December 7, 2016 Thanks guys. I have hired an inspector/appraiser to look the car over for me. He is supposed to verify the numbers and do a thorough (150+ point) physical inspection of all aspects of the car. He will also provide me with a "certified" (whatever that means) appraisal. I am not sure what to make of the certified appraisal value. Not sure if that will wind up being like MSRP (which nobody actually pays) or something more realistic. Assuming this car is what it appears to be, a numbers matching, clean nicely optioned big block car, what is a good price? I am super stoked about this car as it is just what I am looking for color, options and it looks to be in really good shape. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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