Mike Brichta Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Hey Guys, Need some help/advice on a problem with my GM ZZ454. The engine was installed in 11/2010 and only has around 1000 miles on it and has performed without any issues until now. Here is what happened: I was driving to Super Chevy on Saturday to meet up with some folks from the club and to deliver a rear hitch and was cruising along at around 65 mph. All of a sudden the engine started backfiring and just shut off. I pulled to the shoulder, opened the hood and looked for any obvious problems. Everything was perfect. No noticeable problems, no smoke, not overheating, no gas leaks, belts and hoses all ok, etc. I looked underneath and nothing leaking and all looked perfect. I tried turning the engine over and it cranked fast but behaved like the timing was 180 degrees off. IT popped and backfired some more so I knew I was dead in the water and had it flat bedded back home. I still went to Super Chevy but was 3 hours late but still delivered the hitch and met some great Monte club members. On Sunday I pulled the distributor out and 1/2 of the teeth in the drive gear are gone. The distributor turns like new with no issues. The end that turns the oil pump is undamaged and the drive gear pin is perfect and does not slip. I should also mention that the engine was fully assembled when I got it and the distributor was a new GM one recommended for that engine and purchased at the same time. Questions: - Any idea of what could have happened? - I'm thinking the engine is toast because the cam must be messed up and there have got to be metal pieces in there somewhere. Any thoughts? - Anyone deal with the GM warranty on an engine? I'm going to take my story and distributor to a GM dealer on Tuesday along with all of my receipts and see what they say. Any ideas/suggestions/thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I know some other members have the same engine so I will let you know how I make out. Depressed, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy's Auto Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Mike, the only thing I have for you is only a GM dealership can warranty a GMPP engine. Good luck. Never known a dealer not to back up an engine unless you seriously screwed it up, which I highly doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 57 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I think you are on the right track by going to the dealer first. I wonder if they put the wrong gear on it? Hopefully they will work with you with no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stangeba Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I know that it's important to match the correct type of metal on the dist gear to match the camshaft. Iron cam get's an iron gear and steel cam gets a steel gear. Does the oil pump still rotate like with a screwdriver with the dist out? What dist and who recommended it? Heavy oil like a 20 W 50 causes lot's of stress to the dist gear. Good luck! Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FASTSS454 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I am waiting on word from the dealership as to the outcome of this bad situation. This is our worst nightmare seeing our beloved Montes on a rollback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom's Car Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Hey Guys, Need some help/advice on a problem with my GM ZZ454. The engine was installed in 11/2010 and only has around 1000 miles on it and has performed without any issues until now. Here is what happened: I was driving to Super Chevy on Saturday to meet up with some folks from the club and to deliver a rear hitch and was cruising along at around 65 mph. All of a sudden the engine started backfiring and just shut off. I pulled to the shoulder, opened the hood and looked for any obvious problems. Everything was perfect. No noticeable problems, no smoke, not overheating, no gas leaks, belts and hoses all ok, etc. I looked underneath and nothing leaking and all looked perfect. I tried turning the engine over and it cranked fast but behaved like the timing was 180 degrees off. IT popped and backfired some more so I knew I was dead in the water and had it flat bedded back home. I still went to Super Chevy but was 3 hours late but still delivered the hitch and met some great Monte club members. On Sunday I pulled the distributor out and 1/2 of the teeth in the drive gear are gone. The distributor turns like new with no issues. The end that turns the oil pump is undamaged and the drive gear pin is perfect and does not slip. I should also mention that the engine was fully assembled when I got it and the distributor was a new GM one recommended for that engine and purchased at the same time. Questions: - Any idea of what could have happened? - I'm thinking the engine is toast because the cam must be messed up and there have got to be metal pieces in there somewhere. Any thoughts? - Anyone deal with the GM warranty on an engine? I'm going to take my story and distributor to a GM dealer on Tuesday along with all of my receipts and see what they say. Any ideas/suggestions/thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I know some other members have the same engine so I will let you know how I make out. Depressed, Mike Wow..........man that really sucks..........I hope it turns out to be something simple. And you still managed to bring my hitch. I hope it all works out for you dude.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brichta Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 Thanks for the responses. I did use the exact GM distributor recommended for these engines because they require a "melonized" gear and I didn't want to take any chances in case something like this happened. When I get home tonight I plan on trying to see if the oil pump still turns. Maybe that will tell me something about what happend. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70 Iron Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 That bites Mike, I have the same engine as you and this got my attention to say the least. I have 10,000 miles on mine (I hope that I don't jinks myself) and no issues at all. I also used the GM melonized gear that they recomended and purchased from them. I'll be keeping up on this post.Good luck with the problem and hope that GM will honor the warranty.I know from a Small block crate engine that i bought from them ,I had to take it to them for the repair. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montemedic Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Mike, I'm sorry hearing that story. It sounds like an incorrect gear or parts failure. Hopefully GM will stand behind their warranty. Let us know what it happens. It was a pleasure to meet you and your wife on Saturday. I spoke to Greg and he is anxiously waiting to get his part. I will get it to him ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overdrive Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 A friend with a 350 had a small piece of metal come off an oil pump gear. The pump locked up and the pump shaft broke. Maybe your gear was weaker than the pump shaft. I hope you get satisfaction at the dealership. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Man that sucks, hope the dealer / GM takes care of you. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Haze Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Now I know what you were talking about in the other post. That really sucks. What dealer are you going to deal with? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brichta Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 Hey Guys, Just a quick update on my problem. I went out tonight and checked the oil pump and it turns nicely and even pumps up oil pressure if I turn it with a screwdriver fast enough. The pump does not appear to be the problem. Hmm. So if the distributor works great (except for the missing teeth) and the oil pump works great then what caused this problem? Would that suggest the cam or some kind of a timing gear problem? I guess I may never know what the problem is/was unless GM pulls the engine apart and looks for it. Well I think I have enough info for my trip tomorrow to the local GM dealer (Scott Chevrolet). I will let you know how I make out. Mike P.S. Mike, still want to swap problems??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsterdam84 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Could it be you just got a bad gear? Had a stress crack in it and during that drive it shattered. I think you should still follow up with the dealership but I bet if you dropped in your distributor with a new gear on it it will run like before. Just a guess. You would still have to drop the pan to clean out any debris from the gear before you run it again as well. I'm sure you already knew that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 57 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Are the teeth worn thin where they broke? Could the gear have been soft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bell Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 It sounds like a bad distributor gear. With the damage to the gear, your work at minimum would be replacing the cam as it's gear is surely damaged in some way and dropping the pan to clear out the junk. While in there, I'd also replace the pump. As you shut it down right away and have oil pressure when turning the pump, the bearings are probably just fine. GM may want the entire engine back. You'll also probably need to deal with the dealership that you bought the engine from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brichta Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 Engine Warranty Update - After three days of phone calls and visits my request went as follows: - the Parts Dept. then to - the Service Dept. then to - the Service Dept. Manager then to - the Parts Dept. Manager then to - the Service Dept. Director (who is on vacation until Monday) I'm not panicking yet because no one has denied my request but am starting to get a little nervous. The only info that they were able to share with me was that "It would take a little while because it is not a fast process". I would be happy if they just told me I was OK to pull the engine so I could start the work but without some direction from them I'm not sure I should pull it yet. Looks like the car will have to sit for a while. Good thing I have a few more to drive while I wait. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 LS5 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 I have heard of this issue with the crate motors on the Chevelle board - teeth worn on big block crate motors. I stumbled on some posts when I was researching which gear to use on my HEI with the 502. Even with the failures, I still went with the GM melonized gear as their documents say its the mandatory gear to use. Try a search on teamchevelle.com about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte7071 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 We have never had one sold at the dealer I work for so we have not had any warranty engines. We had one guy come in and our parts manager told him to take it to the selling dealer. I have heard it is a long process. If things start to go south with the dealer ask to talk to the area GM rep but only do it if things get bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70mcarlo Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Hope it all works out to your satisfaction, Mike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monteman1971 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Sounds like a soft dist. gear to me... I don't know what a "melonized" gear is but on Scotts solid roller engine the brass gear on the dist. went bad, we simply replaced it and changed the oil and all was good. We recently pulled the engine (for a freshen up) and all the bearings were in good shape. Good luck in however this turns out. I'm sure GM is going to make you jump through hoops but in the end I think they'll make good. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brichta Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Let's hope so. I'm now waiting for the Parts Dept. Manager from the dealership where the engine was purchased to get back from vacation and let me know what needs to be done. I don't want to pull the engine to mess with anything until they give me the ok. What worries me is where are all of the pieces from the distributor gear? I would think that at least the pan should be pulled and cleaned just to be sure. And what happens to the warranty now that all of this has happened? We shall see ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bell Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Melonized gears is the adding of the coating Melonite which also hardens the gear during the process. Melonite is a wear resistant coating. Yeah Mike, you'll need to drop the pan to get the junk out. I also suggested a new cam and oil pump. I'm curious: Did you use a steel collar on the oil pump drive shaft? http://www.burlingtoneng.com/wear_resistance.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brichta Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 Yes I used the exact GM distributor that GM insists you use on that engine. It already has the GM correct steel melonized hardened gear on it. When I was ordering I did not want to take any chances about voiding the warranty by using anything other than what they insisted be used. Ironic isn't it? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heckeng Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 After lots of reading on the net, I chose to go with a Morel melonized distributor gear. I got it from Mike Lewis. I had a year or so with it on my GM 502/502 cam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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